If you don't want a baby, get your tubes tied.

Congratulations Sam you are starting to see some sense .. now then what do you feel about the pro-life agenda to stop comprehensive sex education is schools (a proven way to prevent unintended pregnancies and therefore abortions) and the agenda to remove some contraception's from sale, even though it is a FACT that both of these reduce unintended pregnancies and therefore abortions.

Before you start quoting another posters items on contraception, you should look at the details of those posts .. not a single one of them says that IUD's etc do actually cause embryo abortions, they all say it is a possibility not a fact.

 

no it is not available yet, because the companies that produce the contraception pills have lobbied against it, they see the huge profit loss it will cost them .. however one American woman has negotiated a deal, but it will mean the procedure having to go through every single test from the start all over again . .this procedure will not be (if it ever is) available in the US for at least 10 years .. yet again it is about money (best bit is that most of the companies apposing it are Republican funders)

 

That is just ridiculous, Anders has convicted himself on numerous occasions as have a number of the "darlings" of the pro-lifers here.

and I find that just as bad, why should any person be forced to undergo a procedure they may not want to, I just don't understand this love of force that pro-lifers have.

Certainly not, most of the ones here are though, yourself included sometimes.

 

And what belief is that and how does anyone want to make anyone else comply with it?

You mean Miss Piggy? Please leave your infatuations out of the discussion.

 

Why the hell should a woman get her tubes tied when she doesn't want a baby right then? What if she wants a baby in five years time?

 

He is not stating that women should be legally forced to get their tubes tied. He's just making a suggestion.

 

And this is really the heart of the issue, really reveals the whole pro-choice mentality. She's willing to kill one of her babies just because she wants to wait 5 years.

 

Where as you would force her to wait nine months and then kill it if it didn't meet your standards.

 

don't be a hypocrite. you set standards too. according to you, elective late-term abortions should be legal if the woman was raped.

If a pro-lifer supports abortion with the exception of a pregnancy which resulted from rape, then what they are saying is this.
"since I am against abortions, I believe that the fetus is a person, but the woman has the right to kill her own child, if the child was conceived from rape".

 

Damn right they should be .. but of course you really couldn't give a rats arse for the woman, as long as your oh so precious fetus is protected, thankfully YOU don't get to make your morality law.

I have no respect for anyone who would enforce the psychological problems of carrying the fetus of a man who violated a woman, onto a woman. Let her decide, but there again you don't really understand choice.

and what Anders says is "no abortion, but if your newborn has DS then we can kill it", lets face it Sam you are not pro-life, after all you think abortion is fine until twinning is not a possibility.

 

Even if the fetus feels pain, and is a few weeks before birth? If a woman got pregnant from rape, why didn't she decide to have that abortion earlier on?

you couldn't give a rat's arse for an 8th month old fetus suffering terrible pain, having it's limbs ripped apart.

that's because you love abortions!

If a woman got pregnant from rape, she could have simply decided to get an abortion earlier on, before the fetus became viable. She chose not to end her pregnancy earlier on. the viable, pain-feeling 8 month old fetus should not suffer the consequences of her slow decision making.

Churchmouse couldn't have been more right. you people truly love abortions. You are not the moderate pro-choicer I thought you were.

 

I wonder if those "compassionate pro lifers" will be fine with being mandated to pay for the childs care. Food, clothing, health care, education etc etc. This of course would be 100% paid by taxpayers and be taken from your paycheck as a separate tax. And you would not be allowed to deduct at all from it.

 

As yet you have failed to provide a single piece of reliable evidence to support that ANY abortions are elective in late-term, let alone ones from rape.

Prove that a 8 moth old fetus feels pain. You have absolutely no understanding or knowledge of the individuals who have suffered being raped, yet here you sit in judgement of them.

Prove that comment, or is it just another lie to bolster your inability to understand the first thing about abortion.

Wow, you think that a raped woman is in any fit mental state to make any sort of decision after being violated in the worst possible way .. I can add not understanding women to the growing list of your failings.
How do you know she choose not to end the pregnancy, do you claim to know the minds of all raped females?
yet again prove an 8 month fetus feels pain

CM has about as much credence to me as you are fast approaching .. which is none.
Prove the highlighted statement, twice in the same comment you have lied .. I must say it is becoming more and more difficult to separate the lies from truth in your comments . if you lie this easily why should I, or anyone else, believe a single thing you say.
I really couldn't care less what you think of me, you feelings towards me are irrelevant and given that you consistently fail to even have the slightest understanding of the subject you are fast becoming irrelevant in debating abortion.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind the accusations if there was a shred of evidence to support a single one of them, but as it is fast becoming reality, Sam doesn't have a clue.

 

The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) released a statement about fetal pain given the misleading testimony during the debate over HR 1797, the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Act. This legislation was recently passed by the House of Representatives and if it becomes law will ban all abortions after 20 weeks. There is a life of the mother clause and rape/incest exemption, but only if the rape/incest is reported to the police before the procedure.

We’ll have to discuss the atrocity of requiring a police report to “legitimize” rape/incest on another day. Today I want to focus on the erroneous and thoroughly unscientific belief that a 20 week fetus feels pain.

This is the statement from ACOG on the scientific facts concerning fetal pain:

A rigorous 2005 scientific review of evidence published in the Journal of the American Medical
Association (JAMA) concluded that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester.
Although ultrasound monitoring can show intrauterine fetal movement, no studies since 2005
demonstrate fetal recognition of pain.

Sound health policy is best based on scientific fact and evidence-based medicine. The best health care
is provided free of governmental interference in the patient-physician relationship. Personal decision-making by women and their doctors should not be replaced by political ideology.

The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), representing more than 58,000
ob-gyns and partners in women’s health, supports robust, factual debate on issues of importance to the
American people. We urge you to call on us to provide expert factual explanation of issues related to
women’s health.

It is important to note that many other medical societies also oppose HR 1797, including:

American College of Nurse-Midwives
American Medical Women’s Association
American Nurses Association
American Public Health Association
Association of Reproductive Health Professionals
American Society for Reproductive Medicine
National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women’s Health
National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association
Physicians for Reproductive Health

The above is a determination by the AMA...AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION.

A Fetus CANNOT FEEL PAIN prior to the 3rd trimester.

AboveAlpha

 

I sit in judgment of people that would have an abortion of a viable, fully grown, late-term fetus. Rape does not justify aborting a fully grown, viable, late-term fetus.

FYI, it feels pain.

http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html

You are ignorant. You resort to insulting me to prove your point.

 

I was wondering when the good old doctor Calvin was going to make an appearance, good of you to put all your faith in a single report which has been disputed by numerous other doctors.

How about the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

http://www.acog.org/~/media/Departm...8DCAborStmnt.pdf?dmc=1&ts=20120915T2120559712

or The British Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists

http://www.rcog.org.uk/news/rcog-release-rcog-updates-its-guidance

Something is only an insult if it isn't true, everything I have put about you is true .. your comments convict you.

 

A late term abortion is another word for a third trimester abortion. An abortion over 24 weeks is a third trimester abortion. A fetus can feel pain after 24 weeks. Especially in the 8th month. Are you seriously arguing that a fetus in the 8th month is younger than 24 weeks? Nope, a fetus that's 8th month old can feel pain, according to what you say.

 

You are missing the point entirely, and as usual are wrong as to what a late-term abortion is;

"A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation."

and even this is disputed, there is no clear cut time that is commonly known as a late-term abortion .. please Sam educate yourself before making incorrect comments.

The Third trimester doesn't even start until around week 26-27, so 24 weeks is still 2nd trimester, you really are so ill informed, seems to me you are confusing viability (24 weeks) with the start of the 3rd trimester (26-27 weeks)

As to pain, you seem to have already forgotten that the necessary connections are not fully there until at least 28 weeks, and that pain is not just a physical thing it also requires sentient thoughts and memories .. pain is a combination of the bodies natural reflexes to protect itself from damage and memories that tell us we are being damaged.

BTW, can you show me anywhere in the links provided that state a fetus can feel pain after 24 weeks?

and if you remember the question was prove that a 8 month fetus can feel pain, you still haven't done that, while you are at it prove that ANY abortion after 24 weeks is elective .. but you won't, you'll just throw some more irrelevant comments into your reply without addressing anything.

 

You keep contradicting yourself. Lol.

Are late term fetuses persons, or not? Is an 8th month old fetus a person, or not?

You had said that fetuses over 24 weeks feel pain. An 8th month fetus is obviously other 24 weeks. So what you're saying is that if a woman was raped, she was the "right" to abort a fully grown, viable, 8th month old fetus, that can feel pain and can survive outside of her body. How sickening is that? A late-term fetus is physically no different than a newborn baby. Maybe science says that a zygote isn't an organism. But an 8th month fetus is obviously a living human organism. It's way more physically developed than a zygote. learn some science.

It's disturbing what some people believe. I wish I had CM's talent of creatively finding a way to describe people's moral depravity.

 

This should be entertaining

Legally at the moment no they are not
Medically at the moment no they are not
Morally, yes they probably are

Thankfully is isn't moral viewpoints that make laws.

Have I, where exactly.

Well done you can count

Currently she does, what I am actually saying is that she should have that right . .however having the right to do something doesn't necessarily mean people do it, hence the question to you to show ANY elective abortions, be they for rape or incest, that occur after 24 weeks .. I am waiting for you to tell me what the point is in a law that makes something illegal that never happens, as I said that's like making a law against breathing underwater, it is pointless.

How sickening is what .. that a women has the right to an abortion for rape at anytime, or the fact that no woman would choose to have a late-term abortion anyway.

And you point is

Is that an admittance that you were incorrect in your assertion, I am going to keep this one and re-post it everytime you make the same assertion else where.

Never said it wasn't

Sigh, please quote where I have EVER said it is not .. more lies.

It certainly is disturbing that pro-lifers want to control women.

Read the bible and go to church, you'll soon get the hang of it.

 

Should late-term fetuses legally be considered persons, in your opinion? I didn't ask you about the current laws. I asked you how the laws should be. You are evading my very specific questions.

You are heartless. You don't care if a fully viable fetus, a few days before it's due, who physically is the same as a newborn, WHO IS A LIVING HUMAN ORGANISM, is feeling horrific pain during a late-term abortion, JUST BECAUSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH IT WAS CONCEIVED IN. the only difference between a newborn and a late term fetus is it's location? People would be very sad if they heard a newborn baby screaming in horrific pain, yet they consider it disturbing if somebody feels sorry for a late term fetus. that's exactly what happens during a late-term abortion.

It's disturbing that I pro lifers believe that this child.



Should have the same right to life, regardless of his geographic location? It's so distributing that we are against late-term fetuses being tortured?

You people are very morally depraved.

 

Who is going to pay for it?