ObamaCare's Plans Are Worse

North Dakota is a true free market health care system, where the infirm don't get fancy healthcare coverage if they don't need it, and fight out their illnesses at home with natural remedies like real men do, instead of running up the national health care budget as Obama care does.

Obama care is expensive because it pays for those who are lazy and don't want to work for their health care coverage, like Mass. does with its single player program by Mitt Romney.

Proper health care takes care of those who work hard to pay for their own upkeep in the country, and leaves those who are lazy and don't want to work to find their own way for healthcare.

 

Can they afford the plans at all? The Far Left seems to mistake "being denied for coverage" as the end-all, be-all. "Oh, if we just allow them to be covered, they'll be covered.". You realize, they have to spend money right?

"That's what the subsidies are for!" Well, the subsidies can only reduce prices. It's not a guarantee that they'll be able to get it.

All the New Left has done, is limit the market, give a middle finger to 300 million Americans and told them to deal with it.

 

Population. I live in North Dakota, and we also have a (*)(*)(*)(*) ton of money. I'm assuming we're better run than Mass is too. At least according to every single financial piece of information anyway. It's way cheaper to live here than anywhere else. You'll never guess what I paid for an apartment when I lived in one, or what I bought my house for....hint, it's not much.

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Don't lump me in with your bull(*)(*)(*)(*) statistics. Obamacare wouldn't need to be if the Republicans would pass a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing single payer UHC like other countries. Also, let's not forget, this is a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing right wing plan, they created it. Are you familiar with the Heritage foundation?

Pull your head out of your ass.

 

Our unemployment rate is also the lowest in the entire nation. You have to understand that since most of my state is employed they can afford to pay in to this kind of thing without making a huge fuss about it. The more people that are participating than the cheaper the rates. That's just common sense. That being said, I was on the website and checked out the cost for my family (wife, and 3 kids) and for a bronze plan it was about $500 a month without any subsidies. That's fairly reasonable as I pay about $300 for my insurance through my job.

 

Oh... soorry... soorry... we were looking for: "What is Romneycare?"
Care to stick around for double jeopardy where the scores can really change?

 

Sorry, I can't decipher stupidity, it's the critical thinker in me that stops it. Care to rephrase this so people with a brain can comprehend?

 

What "bull(*)(*)(*)(*) statistics". Are you denying there's 300 million Americans in the country? That the Left has literally told us to screw ourselves, that they know what's best for "Health Insurance"? Also, if it really was a "right wing" plan, don't you think it would have been bipartisan? But no, the Left passed it without so much as a single Republican vote.(And it's not like they clamored for Republican votes either).

And it would appear the Heritage plan came from the early 90's, it's 2013 and several questionable immigrants later, did the New Left really think nothing changed in the socio-political and economic dynamics?

For the record, the Heritage Foundation even admitted that the idea of socially compelling Americans to a form of health care wasn't the brightest idea in the book.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204369404577211161144786448

And so the New Left, struggling to grasp for any kind of straws, complains that the other side hadn't come up with a plan, so their totalitarian epic fail is justified.

Well, I came up with a proposal and it works basically like this: Divide it into three Groups: A group for the Youth, a group for the Middle-Aged and a group for Seniors/those with Pre-existing conditions.

Since all of the Americans are neatly packaged into a group, insurance companies can now specialize in plans for these particular groups. To make it even easier, we'll make it so that a Youth Plan can transition into a Middle-Aged plan and so forth and so on.

Another proposal, was to make it like the Public Library, and to allow Americans to have the option of choosing whether to buy their own books or engage in the Public Library system.

Because you see, Economics determines the market. Self-Determination is what lowers prices, not a barrel at gun point.

The truth is, the New Left betrayed the Nation at a moment when the Nation gave it its unsuspecting trust. They should be ashamed of their jobs and honorably leave office.

 

Yes, I believe stating that the "left" has literally told us to screw ourselves is not only wrong, but stupid. First off, if you're going to use the word "literally" then (*)(*)(*)(*)ing find me a quote. Name one Democrat that has said, "Screw all 300 million Americans" If you can't, then retract that ridiculous statement. I am also denying that 300 million Americans are against Obamacare, that is just what you're told in your right wing echo chamber.

No, because the Right Wing are a bunch of whiney babies. It was perfectly fine when it was Romney doing it, since it's Obama it's garbage and must be stopped. Yes, I am calling the Right Wing a bunch of hypocrites. Deal with it, it's a fact. Do some research son.

Yeah, they did think it's changed, that's why they updated the law to reflect current times. Are you really this terrible at doing research? Also, illegal immigrants get jack (*)(*)(*)(*) with Obamacare. Please, do some basic research.

Yet they formed the plan, like it or not, your link means nothing. They forumulated it and it was put into affect in a Republican state by a Republican Representative. If you can prove me wrong, go ahead, but it's going to take more than The Right Street Journal to do it. That article doesn't help you at all.

This is just a bunch of words that make no sense in the way you've mish mashed them together, but whatever. I'm sure you think you proved a point. The only thing I noticed is that you have absolutely no idea what totalitarian or epic means.

Parroting Faux News and good ol' Rush Limbaugh eh? ECHO, ECHo, ECho, Echo, echo,......

Only you're basically screwing over people that are high risk, and it'll drive up the cost for plans for the elderly. So really your idea is just completely stupid. Good work though.

Yeah, we tried that, it's called "what we have in place now". The only problem with that stupid plan is that sometimes the Library wouldn't give books to high risk customers. So people would get turned down. Anything else?

Yeah, except all of your point and arguments are complete crap, so I don't think they should do that. I think the Right Wing should do some serious contemplating on what direction their little band of buddies is going in. It's not going to end well I don't think.

 

Quote Originally Posted by TomFitz View Post
My real world experience with risk pools is exactly the opposite.

Your claim is false anyway. We're talking about people who could not afford to buy insurance (small business people and sole proprietorship, who paid the highest possible rates) and people that insurance companies didn't want to write."

"So you agree, this is simply a redistribution of wealth from the majority who already paid for their own coverage, and will now be forced to pay more for that coverage.
Thank you for your honesty."

Pretty sorry attempt at deflection

 

oh, i guess you didn't just speak of subsidizing coverage for those who didn't have it. You must have not meant it when you typed it.

 

Oh, by the way, those "risk pools" you are talking about were created by the Affordable Care Act. Before that, there was no such thing.

 

yeah, insurance was never based on risk pools.

 

I would be happy to dumb it down for people with one brain cell.

Massachusetts is the most expensive because Romneycare, on which the ACA was modeled, makes everything more expensive.

Mass cost more because plan bad. Doctors no see people for many suns.

 

The "research" cited in the WSJ piece is from e-Health, which is a lead generating service for insurance brokers.

They make a natural source for anti ACA spin. After all, the ACA is a substantial threat to their business model, which is selling junk policies and high priced individual insurance.

 

Flat out wrong... In Wisconsin my mother had http://www.hirsp.org

Because of Obamacare her plan was cancelled. Now she can buy one through any insurance company but they are charging her much much more and she will likely not get the same doctors she has been using for years. I am sure many states had plans like this that worked for people with pre-existing conditions. Honestly how much research have you done to look for something available in your state? Or did you just believe the BS that if you have a pre-existing condition you can't get insurance to cover it?

And I already know you guys are going to say her plan was canceled because it was junk insurance... You are right, it didn't cover prenatal care and the like something so damn important to a women in her mid 50's who's last kid was born in the 80's.

 

Okay, I'll slightly retract. Even according to Mark Levin, there's some 15% of America that'll benefit from this. So I guess 285-290 Million Americans have to pay a bigger bill. But that's alright, for the good of the State right!

Actually, it's garbage(and is even so in Mass) because the idea of pooling together a single State in a one-size fits all program doesn't work. Have you noticed that U.S Public Education is garbage? Your basically trying to create the same plan for Health Care.

That's just for a single State, the New Left's trying to do it for 285 million Americans. And only a few couple of thousands are signing up. According to the Lefties, you need 7 of those 15 or so million that it'll (supposedly) help to sign up. The goal posts aren't being met no matter how much they're moved.

Why don't you provide a link instead? Wasn't one of the greatest reasons for Obamacare that uninsured people would drive up the bill, leaving the State(and thereby taxpayer dollars) responsible? And actually now that I think about it, Obamacare isn't even a reform. All you've done now, is have us subsidize their insurance! And you have the gall to complain about the "right-wing chamber"? This is like a first grader coming up with his first idea.

Except, you guys have been given power to rule over the Nation. My expectations are slightly higher than a first grader's intellect.

Oh, and the point I was getting to, was that if the illegal immigrants aren't given anything, isn't the 11 or so million of them still a sizable pool that'll end up punishing taxpayer dollars? So not only have you raised our costs, but you haven't even addressed a crucial problem.

You know, the claim to authority really does weaken someone's argument. You might as well be shouting "Even if your political knowledge is superior to mine, I have a strawman that can't be beaten". Which makes it all the more lovely when beating it. So, let's get started.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/20/romneycare-and-obamacare-can-you-tell-difference/

It was found to be mostly true, but the distinctive difference is that the Mass GOV. later on readdressed the issue(see Point and apparently wrote cost-cutting reforms.

Whereas Obamacare.....Yeah.



But you see, I and other Independents already knew this because unlike the New Leftists listening to Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews and the other hacks we actually went for news sources that READ the bill. They were more qualified than Pelosi and company to actually vote(against) this albatross.

What we're learning, from experience is that diversity is a great thing in the marketplace. If a doctor or insurance company charges high prices, a well-educated adult should have the opportunity to either purchase insurance or even **gasp** not get insurance at all, THE HORROR.

For insurance companies that is, if the American People decided Health Insurance wasn't necessary, the companies would have to redirect their policies to the approval of the people or go out of business.

Like every other business company.

But no, the New Leftists gave them a bigger bailout than Wall Street even asked for.

Forcing people to buy something they may or may not want is totalitarian. Oh, and here's the first grade education lesson you kindly asked me for.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/epic

All I did, was I used the polar opposite definition. Instead of an epic(great) performance. It was an epic failure of a performance. That is all.

There was a former poster who ridiculed my College English, I'd advise you not to do the same.

It's unfortunate for you that I never listened to Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, but hey I thought Republicans didn't have any plans. Which is it? Besides no, my plan isn't a Republican one. It takes the Dems epic fail and makes it into a workable approach.

Actually, no. What we're finding is that the costs of insurance has gone up for everyone, including ironically for women despite covering every nook and cranny of a woman's health insurance problems. What my plan does is fairly simple(but apparently not enough for you so I'll dumb it down a bit).

Because Group A only covers the Youth, Group A's costs are relatively low. Because Group B neither covers the elderly nor the Youth, Group B's costs are stabilized. And since Group C neither covers the Youth or the Middle-Aged, even Group C can have a relatively low cost for the Elderly/Pre-conditioned.

Also, because these Groups are specialized, it means there's a Transition Period. The Youth moves onto Group B, Group B participants eventually go into Group C. And Group C which'll fluctuate due to the terminally ill and old age, won't end up actually spending that much.

This is how Economics works. I made a HC proposal based on the very basics of choice, competition and free market enterprise. In short, my proposal OWNS Obamacare by a mile and a half. And I'm just your average 21 yr old College student.

Actually, your referring to Private Insurance, not the "Public Library". And the only reason those companies turned down high risk consumers was because of the opportunity cost VS actual benefits. Keeping the cost down, while enabling these companies to reap benefits should be the ideal goal.

And my proposal of competition, cycles does precisely that. The New Left's naive delusion of fitting everyone in only allows them to reap benefits, and increases the costs.

If you want, I'll send my proposal to a PA Senator, in that I believe effective reform needs to take place immediately.

 

Did a quick search of 2 random states:

Kansas:
KHIA
http://www.khiastatepool.com

Oregon:
PCIP
https://www.pcip.gov

27 states ran through this PCIP including Oregon, 17 of them are switching over to federal control and 10 are not.

I did a quick search and found 28 states that had pre-existing condition stuff set up for their people. Im sure every state had something of the like if one wants to take the time to look.

There was already tons of stuff out there for people with pre-existing conditions. But hey if we repeat it enough that they are getting denied insurance we can get people behind more government control.

 

I like how you mix racism in there too. You said you'll dumb it down, then you speak as the Native Americans spoke in their day. I love when the Right's colors truly show.

Can you guys keep your story straight please? You're saying it is modeled and your buddy is saying it isn't modeled after it. Please stick to one script.

 

Hey Buddy, it started in 2013. Are you really that dense or are you just trying to outright lie? The reason they changed it BECAUSE it was going to be law with the ACA. They decided to get a jump on it. Jesus, seriously, how hard was that to put together.

 

Put a number on it. Whatever it is, it's insignificant in the grand scheme of things. A large chunk of the uninsured seldom need healthcare, and when they do, they pay for it out of pocket (which BTW, is the most cost efficient method of all). And for those you can't pay out-of-pocket, they often get put on Medicaid. And for the remaining amount that doesn't get paid, local communities and charities often step in for the individuals in need. And finally, for the costs that are still unpaid, the hospitals absorb them as part of their operating expenses.

So essentially, the so-called problem of the uninsured was never a problem to begin with. It was something already absorbed by the system at a far lower cost than what ObamaCare will inflict upon us. So your ranking system is BS; the status quo was the status quo, ObamaCare is massively worse, and single payor would be even worse yet.

So then why do liberals think of themselves as "compassionate", if all they ever do is make the current situation worse? Instead, they should think of themselves as the slimy conniving socialists that they really are.

 

Except there won't be anyone except the rich that will be able to afford it. The sticker shock will come next year when businesses and everyone else in America has to start paying for this mess. Your 2020 post I believe is when it becomes unsustainable.

After watching this roll out debacle, and then the actual care and cost coming next year, the republicans had it exactly right, and the democrats will be hard pressed to explain away their lies because it will personally affect every American house hold.

They need the young and healthy to fund the insurance to keep these costs down, and I am quite sure, the last thing on the average young persons mind is paying for healthcare when paying rent is a day to day struggle

 

these types of things can only function with the participation of a majority of people in concert. By definition, the middle class will pay, because that's where the majority of people are.
The middle class always pays. People never learn.

 

Fiddle. This is complete BS. Like 100%. If someone has lost their policy, as millions have, and tens of millions more will , them they must either buy at the Exchange, where a multiple of Obamcare-compliant plans are offered, or buy directly from a single provider, which are the exact same plans as offered on the Exchange, but without the opportunity to compare The one thing that the Exchange does is bring all the higher-priced plans to one venue. That's it !!

We are all caught up in Obamacare now. Every single adult American. Those of means will be paying more. And the free-loaders will find their basket now more full of free-stuff.

Surely you agree, as you cannot possibly rebut this. Nor can any Liberal.

 

Not true. You can buy plans that are not on the exchange. They are not necessarily like the plans in the exchange but they do have to meet requirements.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/y...rent-limited-to-obamacare-exchanges.html?_r=0

 

From your link: