Libs, it's time to start thinking for yourself. They are brain washing you.

I keep hearing Liberals taking off on greedy corporations and the little pay they give out. Don't think for a minute when they started up Free Trade and NAFTA, they didn't know it would cut pay in this country. It was part of the plan. Wages and benefits were going up at a high rate, as you can see by the trouble the American auto industry and cities and states are in right now. They knew by allowing companies to go to Mexico and abroad that it would bring down wages and benefits. They knew that factories that stayed here would have to bring down wages to compete with companies abroad, making like products. They either had to bring down wages and benefits, move out of the country to compete, or go out of business. So don't be stupid and think it's all greedy corporations fault. The government knew what would happen. It was part of their plan. But like Democrats & liberals do, it's better to put all the blame on business and have you believe your only salvation is government.

 

I think it's time for you to find new trolling material. Your anti free trade bs is getting quite old.

 

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NAFTA was negoiated by George HW Bush and passed by a republican congress. Read the wikipedia entry of NAFTA.

 

Very true and I already said that in another thread. Trade with China was done under Clinton. But that isn't what I am talking about. Both sides were for it. Both sides knew it would bring down wages and benefits. Do you deny that?

 

The title of this thread indicates that you are blaming NAFTA on liberals. Now you are backtracking.

The majority of democrats voted against NAFTA.

Thread fail.

Next time, inform yourself. Make sure you aren't the one that has been brainwashed before you start telling liberals how they've been brainwashed.

Thread fail.

 

No, I've always blamed government on both sides for what happened by not making those trade agreements fair. I'm blaming Liberals for trying to put all the blame on corporations for paying so little by cutting wages and benefits when they knew that's what would happen when we did those trade agreements. That was one of the reasons we did them. I'm not saying it was the only reason. Others was to increase trade and exports. Another was to create jobs there so that they could buy more from us. Another was to give them jobs and it would help cut down on illegal immigration. But the plain fact is, both sides knew it would cut wages and benefits. But it's the Liberals that is trying to put all the blame on business and make you believe that only a Liberal government can fix it.

 

Liberals thinking for themselves? Get real liberal "thinking" has always been collective lemming like thinking despensed by the DNC!!!

 

Our own government has been screwing us over for years with unfair trade agreements. Several times I have posted how Japan blocked us out of their markets while we threw our doors wide open to them and our government allowed them to do it. It started back in the 1960's when Japan wouldn't allow us to sell televisions in Japan when Japan never made any. How they tacked on $5,000. inspection fees on American vehicles going to Japan and tripling the insurance rates Japanese would have to pay if they bought an American car, while they had no problem selling their cars here. Many times Japan keep American goods setting in ships in their docks for months on end before allowing them to be unloaded, driving up the cost to American manufactures and having food rot on the ship and our government did nothing to stop it. We lost several big industries to Japan that we once dominated because of the crap our government allowed them to get away with. I have posted much of this before and showed you proof. Our own government has been more of an enemy to the working man than has business been.

 

I'm not just talking about NAFTA? Yes, Republicans started NAFTA and they had a chance to add conditions onto those trade agreements and didn't. But there could have been if both sides of Congress had time to discuss the ramifications of it. But Clinton wanted fast track authority to get it passed quickly and by giving Clinton that, Congress was cut out of making any changes to the agreement. Don't forget. It was the Clinton administration that set up Free Trade to China. It was Democrats in office and Congress in the 1960's who let Japan screw us. Both sides are guilty as hell for these trade agreements. There is no innocent side here.

 

Ross Perot remembers those trade agreements. He remembers how our products sat for months on ships not allowed to be unloaded. He told the world how unfair NAFTA would be and how it would cut wages here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls

 

IN THE BEGINNING, THE TV CARTEL:

A very famous example of Japanese national government and corporate
coordination to take over a foreign industry is that of the Japanese TV cartel,
first set up in the 1960's. This is how Japan took the free-world TV industry
away from the United States. PBS TV's "Frontline" program did an excellent
documentary on this called "Coming From Japan", (see Appendix for how to get
transcript via Internet).

In the 1960's, the Matsu(*)(*)(*)(*)a Industrial Electric Company, Sanyo, Toshiba
and others formed a TV cartel in Japan. They got US TV technology from the
giants in the industry (Zenith, RCA, Quasar) in the following way. The Japanese
government prohibited US made TVs from being sold in Japan. Instead, they
insisted that the technology be licensed to Japanese manufacturing companies
rather than importing (still often the case today in Japan). The US companies
thinking they could still make money this way, agreed to these terms which
enabled the Japanese companies to acquire the technology on how to build TVs.

The above Japanese companies, with tacit approval from the Japanese
government, set up a cartel to inflate TV prices in Japan in order to turn
around and use the money to sell below cost TVs in America. This was to drive
US makers out of the American and world markets. US TV makers went bankrupt or
left the industry as they could no longer fund research to continue making
improved and high quality TVs. They could not compete with the artificially low
Japanese TV prices in America and were forbidden to enter the Japanese market
to take advantage of the high prices there. Hence, the US makers could not make
money. Furthermore, secret deals to thwart US customs, illegal under US trade
law, were set up by Japanese TV makers and US retailers such as Sears and
Montgomery Ward to sell Japanese TVs under store brand names. Concurrently, the
Japanese mounted an important lobbying effort in Washington to ensure that this
scheme was not disrupted by the US government or customs services [Agents of
Influence p77]. As a result, once famous brands such as Sylvania, Quasar,
Admiral, Philco and RCA have vanished or are foreign/Japanese owned. Zenith is
the only remaining US TV maker today. No US companies make VCRs although they
were an American invention.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/japanyes.txt

 

I can sell high quality made in USA GE refrigerators and Hoover vacuums
at a much cheaper price in Japan that Toshiba and Sanyo can (this is in fact
true). I want to start a business. I go to Japan, but no store will carry my
products because I am a "gaijin" (foreigner), and my products are foreign.
Doing so would anger the domestic suppliers of these distributers who may hold
some of the shop's loans or offer them favorable payment plans.

I decide then, I will set up my own company in Japan, open a shop and sell
the appliances myself since no Japanese store will do so for me. Hiroshi said
"You can't because you are a foreigner. Foreigners typically cannot own
companies in Japan". This is in fact true. It is this government practice which
keeps foreign business ventures in the control of the Japanese (and hence why
they tend not to threaten Japanese industry seriously). It is also the reason
there are so many "joint ventures" between a Japanese company and a foreign one
to enter the Japanese market. Otherwise, the foreigner is prevented from
entering, or is later set up to fail.

 

Other true-life examples of this abound. Here are a few:

A US lamp manufacturing company encountered exactly this problem [Time
2/10/92 p19]. It took them 9 months to get lamps off the ship sitting in the
harbor and into retail stores in Japan after customs, and other government
agencies stalled and stalled (which cost this particular company lots of
money). Making foreign goods (ie. food, or apparel) which compete against
domestic Japanese products wait on ships long enough to rot or not be desirable
to the consumer is another practice.

 

As an example of a consumer "protection" law really created to prevent
foreign competition in Japan, one may look at the auto industry. All non
Japanese cars which enter Japan today must be "safety-tested" by Japan for
"safety to the consumer". The fee for this "safety-test" is several thousand
dollars PER CAR imported and must be borne by the importer (and consequently
the buyer) of the car. Cars made by Japanese companies (even if they originate
from foreign Japanese plants such as the US Honda Accord plant) are exempted
from the inspection and the fee as Japanese car companies are permitted to
"safety" their cars themselves at their factories. The result of this practice
is to make the prices of non-Japanese brand cars uncompetitive against Japanese
brands sold within Japan. This law adds upwards of $5000 to the price of each
US car for sale in Japan. [New York Times/CNN 12/25/92]. To further discourage
non-Japanese car purchases in Japan, auto insurance rates for non Japanese
brand cars in Japan have been rigged by auto producers (who own many of the
insurance companies) to be three times higher than rates charged for equivalent
Japanese brand cars [Agents of Influence p156]. It is these practices and laws
(and not that the steering wheel is on the wrong side) that prevent US car
companies from making headway in the Japanese market. Both GM and Ford ship
cars to Japan with the steering wheel on the correct side for Japanese roads
[Agents of Influence p156].

 

You are aware that George H.W. Bush was the champion of NAFTA. Clinton took up the cause after Bush lost the 1992 election, but failing to get NAFTA through Congress was one of Bush's 1991 defeats.

 

This single post and already game over for Marine1.

 

Now who is the ones who really have been screwing us, the corporations, our government, or our lousy trade agreements? I don't need to tell you why I won't buy a Japanese car, no matter how damn good they are either. There is a hell of a lot more to these things. I only put down some of the big ones. Read the whole thing yourself. It's quite long.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/japanyes.txt

 

How in hell do you people just get stuck on NAFTA and forget the trade with China and what Japan did? Why do you only want to blame one side when both sides are just as much to blame?

 

Did you know that even Carter spent a whole week calling congress to push NAFTA through? Obama's right hand man brags that NAFTA was the crowing achievement of his career?

How Will Rahm’s Role in NAFTA Play in the Mayor’s Race?

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-M...manuel-Role-in-NAFTA-Play-in-the-Mayors-Race/

 

I know you on the Left are just dying to lay all the blame on Republicans ,but it isn't true. Democrats were right in the thick of it too. Let's not forget who was in office in the 1960's when Japan was pulling all that crap on us. There is no innocent parties here. Both sides are guilty as hell.

THE CHINA TRADE VOTE; Rounding Out a Clear Clinton Legacy

By DAVID E. SANGER
Published: May 25, 2000

With his victory today on trade with China, Bill Clinton has finally defined his imprint on American foreign policy: the president who cemented in place the post-cold-war experiment of using economic engagement to foster political change among America's neighbors and its potential adversaries.

It is a path he chose in 1993, when 10 months into his presidency he defied his party and pushed through the North American Free Trade Agreement with Mexico and Canada. At the same time, he reversed course on China, despite his 1992 campaign criticisms of his predecessor for ''coddling dictators,'' and concluded that denying China trading rights as a weapon to change its behavior was a policy doomed to failure.

Today, eight months from the end of his presidency -- and with even fewer Democrats on his side -- he convinced a Congress skeptical about trade and even more suspicious about China that normalizing trade relations was the best bet for encouraging political reform in the world's most populous nation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/25/w...ear-clinton-legacy.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

I don't know where you got this from.

But American television broadcasting standards were well below those of the major industrialized nations even then. Our products were vastly superior, even though it was clear that the manufacturers were even then dragging their feet regarding new technology. Vacuum tubes remained a staple in the US television industry into the 1970's.

But there was another handicap. The US NTSA standards, which insured that picture tubes for the US market were not the same as any other market. US televisions had considerably fewer lines of resolution than those of the Japanese nad European markets. No matter how hard a Japanese manufacturer tried, they could never deliver a picture as sharp to the US market as they could for their own country.

So, there was no advantage for the Japanese to get technology from the Americans except to be able to sell into the US market.

 

What I don't get is the insane hypocrisy of liberals.

This is their logic.

1. We hate poverty.
2. We hate jobs going over seas.
3. People in third world countries are far more poor than the poor in the US.
4. We don't care, we want those jobs for American poor, even though they are not as poor as those in third world countries because we take care of our own.
5. We don't mind illegals coming into the US and taking jobs in the US away from American citizens.

There is no understanding the liberal mind.

 

It is if your crazy enough to only look and understand a single post and ignore all the rest.

 

You can see that by what they are posting here. They will only look and understand what they want. I have put up plenty to show that Democrats are as guilty, if not more for what has happened as Rep. but they simply want to ignore it and come back and try and put the blame on one side. How do you get through to people like that?

 

No one likes to be told they are an idiot or wrong about anything. This is perfectly understandable.