Why accept a socialised military if you hate the reds so much?

Why don't you leave instead? Maybe North Korea will be more to your liking.

People value security. Your assumption that they wouldn't provide for it is just brain-dead nonsense.

The same way any country stops itself from being carpet bombed. I guess you cannot conceive of people voluntarily financing an adequate defense force. Seems like your worldview is misanthropic and elitist to the extreme.

 

1. The Constitution predates you. You choose to live in a nation bound by it. If you don't like it, leave and found a Seastead. Put your money where your Objectivist mouth is.

2. Security and national defense are not the same thing. My community can be secured with a few cops, private firearms ownership, locks on doors, and house alarms.

None of those things provide a defense against a real invasion. And no community is going to voluntarily pay huge amounts of money to maintain tanks, SAMs, and fighter interceptors that don't get used.

3. Can you provide a single example to support your claims that they can voluntarily finance an adequate defense?

 

Ya its not the same as if a government nationalized railroads or another industry. Nice try.

 

^_- so you think that everything should be socialized then, right? Because obviously you couldn't be for socializing one thing without believing that we need to socialize lemonade stand operations. Cause lemondae stands are just like the Armed Forces.



Also, ... have you heard of the enumerated powers?

 

I may allow the lemonade stands perhaps

 

Enumerated Powers? So what

That doesn't change the fact that the military is socialised.

Parroting 'it's the Constitution' is the same as saying 'God must exist because the Bible says it's the world of God'.

Can't you see that?

 

1. ) As I said, the Military is the ONLY thing the Constitution authorizes Congress to tax and spend money on. Do YOU have a PROBLEM with that FACT????

2.) You can show me NO WHERE in the Constitution where the Government is suppose to pay for my Health Care. Health Care is each persons own responsibility. Do you have a PROBLEM with that fact???

3.) I have PROVIDED health care for my family every since I got married (unlike others) but the GOVERNMENT has provided MILITARY protection in all that time. Do you have a problem with that fact???

 

Friend, I want to do AWAY with the United States Department of Education and turn that back over to the locals where the tax money comes from in the first place (that's right, the money from local property taxes that support the local schools where we, the parents, use to have some say into what they do or do not teach our children). There's NOTHING nonsensical about THAT!!! Our children are NOT subjects to have NEW ideas practiced upon them. I fought an idiot Educator in a little school in Oregon that told us at the PTA meeting that it was NOT important whether our children learned math or not, they would have computers to do ALL the math when they got old enough to go to work. Funny, every one of my children still do math without the aid of a computer or a calculator.

If I had my way the Enviormental protection Agency would be cut back to next to nothing and the majority of the laws they made up out of whole cloth would be scraped along with all the other alphabet soup agencies the Federal Government has seen fit to set on our backs.

 

Hey, MUN, please tell us WHO made money out of WW2?? How about Korea?? Viet Nam? Etc, etc, etc. Supplies have to be manufactured. Goods have to be moved, and you as a Monday morning quarter back haven't the slightest idea of what you speak.

- - - Updated - - -

Please show me these IN the Constitution!!!

 

It does in this sense, please explain with what you intend to fight tanks with??? Hunting rifles??? Really didn't work out that well for Hungary in 1956 did it? How about trying to bring down jet fights with them, or bombers??? And those aircraft carriers that would sitting 200 miles off the coast launching plans, we KNOW how well our hunting rifles would work against them, now don't we. And if you want to start in about having trained personal (where would you train them) and the Plans, tanks, ships, etc, etc, etc, how will you keep them updated, in condition for instant use, manned, etc, etc, etc, with your militia???

 

Article 1 Section 8:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

 

Considering that the majority of the funding comes from business, no I really can't see the community I live in purchasing ONE F-35 or ONE Abram battle tank for an Estimated in 2012 as US$8.58 million. We only have 1,500 men, women, and children here.

 

So you are fine with SOCIALISM as long as it's in the 'Constitution' then.

Just the point I was making.

Are you just another Statist in disguise?

 

Neither Government Programs, Obamacare, and military spending are socialist.

I hate when stupid Libertarians calling the government "socialist." Many Government firms are not even federally owned and purely profit motivated. The Federal Reserve is not even Federal. Military contracts(where a huge ammount of our budget goes to) are to companies Lockeed Martin, Boeing and KBR..etc.


The difference between the Military benefits and Obamacare, is the Military benefits are paid for loyal service. Obamacare is entitlement for all citizens of USA.

 

The fact that you were so resentful of authority probably didn't help you become a better soldier.

 

Amazing what passes for serious discussion around here.

 

So discuss then sparkus, because you ain't done much of that yet

 

I fail to see how state sponsored military is socialism . Socialists by definition look to decentralize the powers and authorities until communism is achieved and the state withers away . To bring history into play Prussia had the biggest army of their era , in fact it was an army with a state yet nobody will ever name them socialist.
When the military becomes a burden for nation's finances and when it is used to suppress dissent then the situation falls in the other side of the political spectrum which is right wing autocracy .
You will not find any patriots or jingoists on the left , all military nuts are on the right.

 

I think the best answer to this question would be that it is possible to come to a different conclusion to different problems even if the logic is virtually the same.

Just because people make exceptions to a belief does not invalidate that belief. For instance, I don't believe in the death penalty, but I would likely murder someone who murdered my wife. It seems like they contradict, but that is because you have reduced each argument to principle, and therefore eliminated the exact contextual inputs that make it distinct in my mind.

That is the danger of ideology - it seeks to simplify all the depth and texture of the human mind, to reduce a highly complex brain and thought process to an easily understood set of guidelines. There is no need to be ideologically consistent.

 

I think you may be just a little slow to grasp my meaning.

 

Friend, I accept the military because it's what works the best. I reject the Healthcare because it doesn't work well at all. I pointed out a few things that YOU need to answer. With about 40% of the Doctors saying that they will quit practice (and the majority of the Doctors are over 45) how will your beloved socialized medicine handle the influx of patents you clime to need it for??? How about an answer.

 

Nauseatingly simplistic characterizations.

 

Just copy the successful models that other countries use - plenty of Euro states have great socialized medicine.

 

I agree with you, privatize the military, it will pass all the burdens on a corporation and not the taxpayers. I like voluntary donations as, I hate being taxed at the point of a gun and by force.

 

Another incredibly stupid idea.