Gun Ownership Comes With Gun Responsibility

You are arguing with the wrong person - that 16 times figure is from the CDC

Morbidity and Mortality report October 2003 vol 52

 

I'm looking though the Center for Disease control's statistics. Nothing on my end so far. Can I get a link to the data tables?

I'm not interested in articles, or news reports, just the data please.

 

I would like to see the source for the statement that 2 million children live in homes with unsecured guns. It is likely BS.

 

No = sorry do your own homework

I gave clear reference to a CDC report - that SHOULD be good enough for anyone

You have 10 times the rate of gun related deaths per year than we do

As for the UK - they have few gun deaths PER DAY than you have in a YEAR

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4507452&page=1
'enough said.......

 

Exactly my point

 

But you assume that the majority of the American people want this when polls show the opposite. As for Australian gun policy, I do not care what the decisions have been made, so long as my rights are not infringed upon in my own country, have fun.

 

Thank you, I find that level of irresponsibility hard to believe, but assuming it is true, what should be done about it?

I think the article says 18 states have laws concerning this issue. What impact have those laws had?

 

After long consideration about WHY our gun incident rate is so much lower than yours - and why it fell post 1996 gun law reform I came to the conclusion that it was the laws relating to firearm security that probably had the biggest impact. After all our ownership rate is actually HIGHER than it was in 1996, And it is not just me - there are quite a few research papers looking into the fall in gun related deaths and they conclude that the small amount of effort it takes to obtain the gun is often enough to stop the impulse suicides, Sort of like the number who are stopped by having to get pills out of blister packs as opposed to just downing the bottle

Certainly it impacts on child safety but to see the real statistics on this you have to go to the American Academy of Paediatricians - who have done extensive research and worse have extensive experience

http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-...t-to-Preventing-Gun-Injuries-in-Children.aspx

 

....the headquarters of Liberal bias

 

Of course it couldn't have anything to do with your economy and employment getting much better after 96 could it?

 

I looked though nearly every single page of the CDC involving homicide/manslaughter. There are absolutely no data tables proving your point, and what I have told you before "misrepresenting data is nothing short of lying."

In our previous argument, I broke down the CDC data you have brought to my attention(http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_04.pdf).

Firearm: 31,672
Unintentional - 606
Suicide- 19,392
Homicide - 11,078
Undetermined - 252
Legal intervention/war - 344

With a population of 312,805,598 persons, how would one be 16x more likely to use it againsed a family member? The claim is preposterous.

One cannot single out a way of homicide. The U.S. has an overall non-negligant manslaughter rate that is roughly 4x higher than that of the U.K, but it's important to look at overall violent crime rates, which the U.K's violent crime rate is roughly 3x higher than that of the U.S. (There is no such thing as a violent first world nation to begin with, both the U.K. and U.S. have extremely low violent crime, and murder rates. Every year it gets lower and lower in both countries)

 

Errrrrrr - do you want to go back to the OP and this time actually READ what I wrote because either you misread what was written or you are building a straw man of gigantic proportions

Oh! And although it is reasonable to compare death rates from country to country (after all dead is dead) crime statistics are not comparable because there are far far far too many impinging factors

Like for instance here if you spit on a COP or even in some states a public official you can get charged with not just assault but serious assault

 

I see now. You wanted me to look at the AAP website? Well I have now, and there are many problems with it. First being they don't cite their sources, which my post above debunks most of the opinion they claim.

"Strong scientific evidence suggests that the presence of a gun in the home of an adolescent increases the risk of suicide." Bull (*)(*)(*)(*). If somebody is determined to take their own life a gun will not influence them any further than they already are. This isn't "Scientific," this is where philosophy comes into play, and nothing more.

"Firearm-related injuries and deaths can be prevented when guns are stored safely away from children and adolescents in a locked case." Incorrect. The best alternative is education. Teach the kids about guns at a young age, and they will respect the weapon for the rest of their life without any foul.

"Child access prevention laws that enforce safe storage practices including the use of trigger locks, lock boxes, and gun safes" This would be enforced how? An officer cannot enter somebody's house without permission, and if the executive branch cannot be aloud access to such things than the law would have been pointless to begin with. It's obvious that one should lock away one's un-used firearms, as they are more likely to be stolen than used to harm the family one loves, as shown in the data above.

"Regulation of the purchase of guns, including mandatory waiting periods, closure of the gun show loophole, mental health restrictions for gun purchases, and background checks" First, lets start with this "gun show loophole." To be frank, there is none. This "loophole" is one private individual selling the weapon to another, this happens consistently on craigslist. This is where more philosophy comes into play, I believe it is one's personal right to sell what ever they want to another person, you most likely disagree. How would these weapons be "regulated?" We already have mandatory waiting periods, and background checks, and the mental health restrictions have shown their self's to go too far, with the example being Connecticut, as anybody with even the slightest depression on rectord was prevented from purchasing a firearm, which is highly ironic because Connecticut is the "Constitution state."

"Restoration of the ban on the sale of assault weapons to the general public" This one honestly made me chuckle a bit. There is no such thing called an "assault weapon." There are flintlock, bolt, semi-automatic, burst, fully-automatic, and select. None of which are "Assault weapons." Countless times have I debated with people, and each and every time it has always boiled down to the way the weapon looks. Somebody with the right tools could make an old SKS look like your average hunting or sport rifle. Could you please define "Assault weapon?"

"Adolescents often experience very strong emotions and have difficulty seeing past a temporary setback,” Morality salience is the largest factor in strong emotions toward someone, something, or one's own beliefs. MS does not come into play until the approximate age of 13-15 depending on the child's psychiatric inheritance from the mother and father. This is where philosophy kicks into play, where nobody can be right, nobody can be wrong, and an argument will continue without an end in sight.

It's the same in the United States. If you spit on a officer you can get an felony assault charge, and potentially go to prison for 2 years. To show how absurd modern american law is. A man by the name of Adam Kokesh not long ago decided to dance in the Jefferson memorial was arrested and potentially faced with a year in the state jail.

 

No I wanted you to address what was actually posted in the OP (Original Post) instead of building straw men

And in case you are wondering what a straw man fallacy is - this describes it nicely



In other words it is what people do when they cannot or will not address the real point of debate

 

in another thread, poster tells us that the poster never made such claims about gun control or safety, yet, here it is.....again.

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more cartoons......................

 

I already did reply to the original post.

Which my previous post about the data still stands. It's not "Straw man" It's logic and data, math of sorts.

The link (http://everytown.org/issue/preventable-deaths/) does not cite any statistics, they only make opinionated claims, and nothing more. The link that they give as a "related soruce" is nothing but a link to another article which that article links to a PDF file in which they claim is all the data they need. (http://3gbwir1ummda16xrhf4do9d21bsx...nt/uploads/2014/04/SchoolShootingsReport1.pdf)

Lets go ahead and break this PDF down. (Ironic, how you claim i'm trying to straw man. This entire PDF is filled with logical fallacies)

Hasty Generalization. As data has not been released by the feds yet.

Ad hominem. As the entire post was wrought on the spur of emotion.

Either/or. As the article attempts to claim either we register weapons and highly regulatem, or more children will die.

Ad populum. As the article attempts to claim. If you really cared, than you would support this legislation.

Straw Man. As the article attempt to claim. If you don't support legislation, than you don't care about the children. (Again)

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. This man owns a gun, and this child died by a gun. So we need to propose legislation that regulates, and posts registrations on all guns.


"In the fourteen months since the mass shooting in Newtown, CT, there have been at least 44 school shootings including fatal and nonfatal assaults, suicides, and unintentional shootings — an average of more than three a month.1 In the first six weeks of 2014 alone, there were 13 school shootings including one eight-day period in which there were four shootings in K-12 schools." Lets start with this. To begin, there is absolutely no statistical data to prove this claim(yet), as the 2014 data has not been compiled yet, and sent to the FBI, CDC, and other agencies for analysis. In fact, this entire PDF is gathered from news reports that american media loves to blow out of proportion.

 

do not be so thin-skinned, I wasn't addressing you nor your points.

 

Whoops. I meant to reply to Bird. I'm sorry about that. :/

 

tis ok

 

((((((((((((((((((sigh))))))))))))))))))))

Shakes head - perhaps deliberately obtuse?:

This is what was posted

American kids are 16 times more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than kids in other developed countries.

And you are not addressing that but going off on some tangent of your own

 

I'm going to change my data here a bit, Some corrections. There is an approximate 103,587,000 gun owners in the U.S. (Approx 1/3 of the population) and approximately 606 accidental shootings, that would put the chance of using your weapon on your family member at 0.000585015%.


If the chances of a child in the U.S. being shot by a unsecured gun is 16x greater, that would mean a child is at a 0.0000036563468% chance in these "other developed countries." When there is less than a one hundredth of a percent, than what use is the claim? In correlation 0.0005% makes almost zero difference. Lets say you had a 99.9995% correlation, well nobody would write it down as that, each and every time it will be written down as a 100%.

 

Where are YOU getting your data???

I accept this data because our child injury rate from firearms is virtually nil as with most of the OECD



But you are not the only country with high gun ownership rates

 

these babies you keep referring to are juvenile delinquents with ties so close to the "family"... Gangsters, wanabe's who think they cannot die and treat other people like animals. They spend a lot of time shooting each other up.
We do know of one source for illegal weapons, that would be the distant king call Obama and his boy Holder.

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gotta dig up some really old stats to prove a losing point?

 

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/responsible-gun-owner-day-was-showing-his



Responsible Gun Owner Of The Day Was Showing Off His Gun When He Shot Himself In The Head




Can't fix stupid. Hopefully, there will be a lesson learned from this.