Ireland- say you wanna kill yourself and you can abort up until birth!!!!

How do you know the reason women have abortions? A lot of women have abortions because they want to go on vacation, which is a selfish reason.

True, but what about the married women who have abortions?

Overpopulation is still inevitable.

 

Back to the topic.....if a woman is so upset over a pregnancy that she feels suicidal but some cruel heartless slobs insist she HAS that baby I wonder how that child will feel when it finds out the situation of it's birth.
But I know Anti-Choicers do NOT care about the child once it's born....they only worship fetuses....which is sick.

- - - Updated - - -

How do Y O U know why women have abortions????


YOU are the one claiming YOU know ....

And, of course as usual YOU cannot show proof that women have abortions so they can go on vacation,,,,,what an idiotic idea but if they did it's still none of your business...

 

Because I know women who have had abortions, like my mother, my aunt, some of my friends. I read stories about women who chose abortion and why they chose to have them. It is almost always out of complete selflessness and thoughts of the potential child's future and well-being.

What about them? They have sex with their husbands, sometimes the timing is bad because they just had a baby/already have multiple kids/can't afford more. Yes what about them? Usually husbands are loving and understanding people and they reach these decisions together.

Sometimes the husband is abusive and beats the crap out of her and she does not want to bring a baby into that bad relationship, again a choice made out of selflessness.

So instead of trying to make an EFFORT to stop it you just wanna throw your hands up in the air and give up? Or rather in your case force women to have more and more babies they don't want or can't afford to care for and only perpetuate the problem? Whyyyyy????

 

nope it is not, pregnancy is an injury as the medical and legal evidence proves .. please prove otherwise.

 

I have an Idea.....when YOU develop a vagina and womb, you can then decide what to do with them. But, even then you only get to decide what to do with your own.

 

Why do you keep claiming you know why women have abortions but have NEVER EVER shown proof of how YOU KNOW what every woman on earth is thinking???

 

Every single one of the things listed above have been shown to be 100% wrong.

Makes no difference, even an innocent is not given free reign to impose themselves onto another unwilling person.

Here we go again the old BS of consent to sex is consent to pregnancy, something that has been blown so full of holes that only scrap is left.

Begging the question again I see .. how do you know that "most women only abort for selfish reasons?"

Don't have to argue it, it is a medical and legal fact.

Which of course is irrelevant.

and as has been pointed out to you numerous times, the place where (should it ever happen) the ultimate decision on the legality of abortion will be in the courts and the lawyers involved will make arguments using laws, precedence and other cases in order to try and convince the Supreme Judges to either make abortion illegal or not .. public opinion will make no difference what so ever, neither would some future pro-life president, or even a pro-life government . .none of them are above the decisions of the Supreme Court.

Certainly not .. however, the vast majority of UNWANTED pregnancies occur to those in poverty, and by banning abortion you do NOTHING but keep the cycle going.

Women with family incomes below the federal poverty level ($18,530 for a family of three) account for more than 40% of all abortions.[1] They also have one of the country’s highest abortion rates (52 per 1,000 women). In contrast, higher-income women (with family incomes at or above 200% of the poverty line) have a rate of nine abortions per 1,000, which is about half the national rate.

Source [1] - http://journals.lww.com/greenjourna...Abortion_Rates_Betweeen_2000_and_2008.14.aspx

So in my estimation the majority of abortions are not done for "selfish" reasons but are done for those women who live in poverty, and quite probably simply don't have the income to afford another child. If you think that is a selfish reason then I pity you.

Really nothing to say to that, it is just beyond belief that you posted it.

 

Are you calling it an idea? It warrant a name of a mental fart and should be treated as such.

 

I see....so rather than leaving the choice to the woman who has the body you are trying to control....we should delegate it to YOU and hope you don't do anything else to it.

You must have a very strong sense of Ego....or something much, much worse.

 

I think all debate is being derailed by this ambiguous use of the word - rights. What are those rights and who grants them? Should those rights be considered separately from duties? Where is the role of the nature in all this if any? Such and few other similar issues need to be considered. I'm not up to it today, maybe tomorrow.
You cannot treat rights as something separated from everything, in a purely theoretical or individualist way. Every person is a part of the society and after all some people are self-centred, why would anybody consider somebody right to whatever notion they came up with? After all we all rightly and correctly are able to recognize a nutter - an individual who shout - I can fly it is my right to fly.
Woman body can carry a new life. It is not a sickness or inconvenience, it is a nature. That new life is not an infectant, it wants to grow and progress, it is the nature again. If a woman doesn't want to have children she knows what to do. If she is stupid, unlucky or plainly careless what should she be treated better than men in the same predicament, fathering child and forced to finance their unwanted child for the next 20 years regardless of their wishes? Where are their rights?
Should stupidity or carelessness be rewarded? I think not.

 

Child support has nothing to do with abortion.
And that comment proves you just can't address posts that prove you so wrong...

 

That arguement is irrelevant.

 

No? Women are sometimes forcing on men duties against their will. On the other hand they protest - we have the right to do with our bodies what we want, nobody has the right to force us. Double standards and hypocrisy.

 

When child support involves living inside another person and injuring them against their will you might have a point until then you don't.

What part of not having the money don't you understand .. yet another throw away pointless comment from you

 

There is nothing ambiguous about rights, the are plainly laid down in the constitution and subsequent legal rulings.

Careful how you use nature as it means with no interference from humankind, as yet I know of no pregnancy that has ever happened that didn't involve humankind . .do you?

I'll give you the same answer as I gave another poster, when supporting a born child involves that child living inside of another person injuring them against their will, then you might have a point until then you don't.

 

Please provide proof that women are forcing on men duties against their will. ( and remember, women cannot FORCE men to pay for their children, not even courts can)

AND IF they are , that is EXACTLY what YOU want to do to women...YOU have the double standard and YOU exhibit hypocrisy.......

 

"""Child support has nothing to do with abortion.""".....glad you agree...

 

since when did child support force a man (or woman as they ALSO pay child support) to use his body against his will in order to biologically sustain the life of another?

Since when did child support force a man to undergo continuous injury for nine months against his will .. tell me the last time you heard of a man having to endure 400 times the base level of hormones, the re-routing of his blood supply, a new organ being grown in his body, an increase in blood pressure by 15%, having part of his immune system suppressed for nine months and then after that having to have his stomach cut open or his genitals stretched and possibly torn JUST to supply child support?

What all pro-lifers do is to gloss over or simply ignore that no man in the history of the human race has EVER had to suffer injury due to pregnancy .. I find it disgusting that they attempt to compare child support to this.

also need to remind you that no woman has EVER forced a man to pay child support, it is only the courts that force them to do so, and even then a man can still not pay.

 

"child support doesn't involve living inside another person". Irrelevant.

I understand that child support doesn't involve living inside another person. I never argued that it did. I am ONLY arguing that child support involves imposition, imposing a responsibility on somebody without their consent.

 

The original arguement was not comparing sustaining life vs not sustaining life. Whether or not child support involves sustaining life (which it doesnt) is irrelevant. It's about imposition. Child support is imposition. A lot of parents don't want to pay child support, they want to live their own life, but the law requires them to pay money to support their child and pay for 2 households, without their consent.

 

And has NOTHING to do with """"""""""" Ireland- say you wanna kill yourself and you can abort up until birth!!!! """""""""""""

the topic.

 

That's correct. The law requires men to pay child support. Just like how if abortion was illegal, the law, not the man, would require her to give birth, if abortion was illegal.

Yes, but they are legally required to pay it. That's like saying, "so what if aborton is illegal, women can still have abortions if they choose to".

 

I think that men deserve the same opportunity to opt out of parenthood as women do, (i.e. an adoption setting).

If a woman can opt out of parenthood in multiple ways, such as abortion or adoption (she can simply say she doesn't know who the father is) then why can't a man? Provided that he is informed about the pregnancy early on and makes it quite clear he will not be involved in the child's life that leaves the woman with plenty of time to make a decision. Is she up to the task or capable of providing for this child on her own? If not she can still abort, if yes she can choose to keep it.

I find it extremely sexist to behave as though women are incapable of caring for that which they WANT to have. If they know they cannot afford a child and choose to have it anyways with plans to essentially extort money from the child's father for 18+ years because she is unwilling or incapable of caring for it, well that's just wrong in my opinion. If a woman is responsible enough to choose an abortion then she should be responsible and adult enough to understand that having a baby is going to cost a lot of money and if the father doesn't want to be involved then her choice to have it is hers alone and she should be entirely responsible for it.


Now in the instance a man promises and promises that he will be there for her and be a family with her and then up and disappears after the baby is born, that is when child support definitely should apply.

Also in the instance of marriage and divorce where it is clear both parties wanted and had children together. Obviously both parents will be financially responsible for the children in these instances.

 

You miss the HUGE glaring difference between child support and abortion.

Child support, WHICH IS OFF TOPIC, involves a human being who is here, a CHILD, needing food , shelter and clothing, education, medical care, etc., a real existing PERSON.

An abortion doesn't.


Supporting children IS a big imposition which is ONE reason SOME women get abortions.

 

This thread is a complete crock.

Due regard must be given to the constitutional right to life of the unborn.

The decision was made to leave the clinical decisions up to doctors. Abortion can only be permitted where all other options have been exhausted, including committal to a psychiatric institution. If the foetus is viable then the doctors can still terminate the pregnancy by delivering early every effort must be made to preserve the life of the pre term baby.

But faced with the prospect of 3 consultants weighing the decision and possibly committing you to an institution for the duration of your pregnancy how many women would submit to that process.

Pills can be bough on-line from reputable charities and shipped into the country. There are daily ferry crossing, multiple airlines serving multiple routes between the UK and Ireland, a few buses to London and even diaspora networks which will provide accommodation. Who is really going to subject themselves to the Irish system.

The psychiatric element had to included in the legislation because the supreme court ruling related to suicidal 14 year old rape victim who the state tried to force to return to Ireland to bear her rapists child.