A few question for the anti gun side.

Yes. Join in orlandochuck. Identify yourself for who you are and who you stand with. I love it.

Give in to your hate. Feel the power of the dark side. Lol

 

I'm not even a little bit chagrined. Let alone embarrassed.

What's embarrassing is Vegas' arguments. I feel embarrassed for him.

 

Slipped my mind. The syntax also suggests that it might be the kid that was here for a few days then left. There also seems to be new persona that has been resurrected that makes me think it's Ron who has pretty much disappeared from the debate. Nevertheless it's the same song different verse.

 

Ron, this guy, or whoever; it doesn't matter. They're like the bad guy clone in "The Matrix". Render a guy senseless; throw in a bit of bad code, and zing! You have another one.

 

sounds like some low budget science fiction film-invasion of the gun snatchers

but sadly its the same rubbish again and again and again from the Banoid movement and its followers and minions on various message boards

 

Well I am a bit embarrassed you didn't go with Donatello or Raphael as a moniker but as for the rest....I am proud to call you AMIGO. and you can speak for me anytime.

 

I have the same handle on several boards-each one has a different turtle avatar. One has the Nemo turtle my son suggested (back when he was a kid and into that sort of thing)

Oh well

Cowabunga Dude!

 

Same way they got rid of cars without seat belts?



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They didn't get rid of cars without seat belts and cars aren't protected by a specific amendment in the BOR.

 

Neither are guns.



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I could have sworn our Bill of Rights contained an individual right to keep and bear arms. Yep. We do.

 

Remember folks go personal. Attack the person. nothing else works

 

OK now I'm interested. What, in your opinion, does the 2nd Amendment do/protect if it is not an individual RKBA outside the militia?

 

I watch this discussion from a distance, from Germany, where we have approx. 20% of citizens owning firearms, sitting on place 15 of the international rank list of states concerning the number of firearms owned by civilians (together with France).
The number of firearms owned by Germans is roughly 25 Millions.
We had 27 people killed by legal firearms in 2013 and exactly the same number having been killed by illegal ones: together 54 victims of firearms in 2013.
Police statistics from 2011 indicate 82 shots having been fired by German police, killing six and injuring 15 people.
Since the year 2000 Germany had 16 mass shootings with firearms involved, 72 people were killed in the incidents.

Those statistcs are nothing as compared to the US, 16 mass shootings having been counted in 2016 until this very present day.
That however does not prevent German liberal left eco socialist activists and party members after every single individual having been shot to claim further restrictions in legal gun possession, in a country already having some of strictest gun laws in the world (countries in which gun ownership generally is not permitted not taken into account).

All guns and ammunition in Germany have to be registered. Those have to be stored in a locked safe, guns unloaded. All that can be controlled at any time by municipal officials without announcement, violations or refusal to let them enter one's appartment lead to immediate seizure of the gun permission, which by the way only can be obtained after one year membership in a shooting club and a certified course in gun safety. That however is only the permission to possess guns and to shoot them at home or on shooting ranges. For carrying guns in public a special license is required which only can be obtained by persons being "working in special dangerous professions".

New proposals of our green left party is guns mandatorily being stored in local gun storages under supervision of the state, giving guns out only on special occasions like shooting competitions. New permissions should only be handed out after medical and psychological checks, people having ANY offense on their criminal record, including traffic violations, should not receive a permission (presently: only criminal offenses including violence). Permissions also should be limited to be valid for 5 years (Presently: no time limitation).

Being a member of a shooting club and coming around in Bavaria, I can see, what the real problem behind those claims is: Bavaria has hundreds of traditional shooting clubs, each having hundreds of years of tradition, some going back to the year 17-hundred something or below. Those do not only shoot for fun but also preserve German and Bavarian heritage, run around on special occasions in "Lederhosen" and/or have fanclub departments for the former Bavarian Kings, like Ludwig II., owner of the famous Neuschwanstein Castle.
Commonly those Bavarians in general and shooting club members in particular are kown as "conservatives", which is a natural born enemy of the "progressive" green left eco tree huggers, intending to "exterminate" all surviving "cells" of "backwards oriented" conservatism. That this is in my country exactly the same as in your country, gun violence statistics having lightyears between them, indicates to me that "protection of citizens" is not what liberals have in mind. They need a reason for atrocities against a political enemy not daring to say that this is their primary intention. I assume that is the same as in the USA.

My conclusion is to fight against those restrictions and one of the points I like most in discussions with the left is seeing them unaware of the fact, that "race hygiene" was and is an invention of the left, the "progressives", the reformers, the first country in the world having laws to protect the blond and blue eyed Aryan master race having been Sweden in 1909, which together with Canada was the last country in the world to abolish those laws - in 1973. The Nazi German Nuremberg laws by the way were a word by word translated copy of the Californian race hygiene laws, Germany in 1934 being the 33rd state worldwide to introduce race protection legislation.
(That is nothing abut "shame and guilt" but I regard it as helpful to know that race hygiene comes from the left, not from the right, "Nazi" being the short form of the term "National Socialist".)

Instead of comparing "gun possession" and "murder rates" from country to country it should be compared how the left tries to cut back civilian liberties and freedoms in every country, no matter how many people are killed by firearms. That will show large differences in victimology but striking similarities in leftist behavior.

https://legalwaffenbesitzer.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/amoklauf1.pdf
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
http://www.schiesssport-centrum.de/...rb-und-besitz-soll-durch-eu-erschwert-werden/
http://www.schloesser.bayern.de/deutsch/schloss/objekte/neuschw.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCzT4njsyH4
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php
http://waragainsttheweak.com/

 

As soon as someone tells you this, you may as well ignore him -- he isn't interested in an honest debate,

 

The constitution protects the people, not guns. The people can be protected without you walking around with a broadsword, flamethrower, machine gun or many other arms.




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Actually it protects our rights, and one of those rights is to be able to own weapons, in the event they are needed.

If the government could protect us, things like San B. and Paris wouldn't happen, home invasions wouldn't happen, robbery wouldn't happen.

The police are not required to protect anyone except under 2 specific circumstances.

I'll depend on myself for that, thanks to the 2A.

 

The constitution doesn't protect your rights. It's just a contract, an agreement about what we as a people will do. The government is our agent. Through that agency, we attempt to protect ourselves and insure the promises of that contract... but in the grown up world, bad things can and do happen anyway.

And some moron keeping a gun under his pillow isn't going to make us any safer. Probably the opposite.



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That couldn't be farther from the truth.

The Constitution is our entire basis of government, which is why ALL federal government workers swear to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

We do not swear allegiance to the government, or the President. We swear to protect that document and the ideals that are the basis of our entire way of life.

The federal government is required to protect the states, and the US as a whole, from the threat of enemy invasion. They are not required to protect you as an individual. Even at the state level the police are not required to protect you.

Is living at the governments whim worth 100% safety in the first place? You support the inaptly named "Patriot Act" I guess?

Being armed is the only thing that makes us safer. The only thing preventing those who have a desire to rape and murder is the threat of their own death. Prison is no longer a deterrent, it's a training camp.

 

Specifically, an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

 

What are you talking about? Not a single person here has said anything about a 10 year old being able to walk into a store and buy a gun. We haven't said anything about changing the current laws actually, it's been about not adding new ones. Please don't join this discussion if you are going to throw out flamboyant claims. Read, comprehend what you just read, and then respond. Don't make stuff up.

So should yours.

None of us are arguing that anyone should have full auto weapons, destructive devices, or anything else. You are ruining the thread even more than the personal attack guys by making crap up. Stop please.

There are still cars with seatbelts driving on the roads. This comparison doesn't make sense. The question was, in a ban situation, how would the government find 400+ million guns. They won't. I'm sure many people would *become criminals in a ban situation because they would not give up all of their firearms. I see lots of boating accidents...... that's my point. How would the government find them all? They wouldn't.

 

Those cars without seat belts — they've been banned from our roads. We made them illegal, offered ways to recycle or re-purpose those illegal devices, and after a reasonable adaption period police will cite your for your illegal use of them should you drive one down the street. We went through the same thing with certain engines, lack of smog equipment, and now three wheeled cars.

You can apply for a temporary waiver if you want to use one in a parade. *shrug* If we made your preferred armament illegal, I imagine there would be a similar process. Seems easier than dealing with the bans on asbestos, leaded gasoline, Styrofoam cups, fluorocarbon refrigerants, aerosol hairsprays...



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Thank you for saving Hawaii from 3 wheeled cars and cars without seat belts.

 

The government exists at our whim, not the other way around. And if it's broken, that's our fault. You can swear allegiance to a piece of paper if you want, I haven't.

I recognize that this country belongs to the people, of which I am one equal partner. The paper that you think is so magical is just where we captured our plan on how to manage a partnership of now 319 million equals. That agreement was eloquently expressed and well thought out. It's a good plan. But even the guys who wrote it recognized times change and the plan would need to be adjusted as we moved forward. That's what those amendments you think so sacred are — edits.

Untrained, unregulated gun nuts armed to the teeth and roaming our streets don't make this country safe. Especially if their goal is to impose, by force of arms, their individual interpretation of their holy paper onto their neighbors. We the people make this country safe. And to do that we often act through well regulated agencies that we the people have established. An armed and well regulated agency is necessary to the security of a free state. Bubba having a shotgun is not.




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true if you mean say the gun on a M1 Abrams-a 120mm smoothbore

but SMALL ARMS are protected including all firearms