<MOD WARNING>Auschwitz guard jailed for five years in Holocaust murder trial

Agreed! That's why I say they are welcome to infer all Jews are liars rather than tell them that it is hate speech as you did which, should be on your FB page instead of here according to your point of view.

 

I disagree. Only when stupid ideas are brought out into the open is it possible to show how stupid they are.

There are fundamentalist religious folks who deny the role of the Church in the equally horrifying atrocities during the middle ages in Europe. Do we make this "illegal" too ?

Belief in freedom of speech is not belief in freedom only for speech that you agree with. Everyone believes in freedom for that. If you only believe in freedom of speech for things you agree with then you really do not believe in freedom at all.

Belief in freedom of speech is belief in freedom for speech you detest. (Salmon Rushdie)

 

Holocaust denial is hate speech and hate speech is explicitly banned on this forum and yet there are over three holocaust denial threads not even in the conspiracy theory subforum with two in latest news. Jews are the only non protected group on this site, well Jews and cops. And in fact it is now against the rules on this forum to even point out that a holocaust denier is a holocaust denier in one of the 20 odd Jew baiting threads in which they started, because reasons.

 

It's been done to death the unequivocal evidence has been presented to many times to count, holocaust denial is anti-Semitic hate speech and is explicitly banned by the forum rules, the assertion that holocaust denial isn't hate speech is laughable on its face.

 

Couldn't care less about the moderation as I was merely stating to the denialists not to be afraid to post here.

If facts from Britannica, eyewitnesses, millions of photographs, hundreds of thousands of sworn testimony from victims, perpetrators, witnesses and investigators cannot be considered fact then why not allow threads questioning the roles of centaurs, sea monsters and talking cats in politics today?

You in essence have allowed the takeover of a thread about a German man who acknowledges the Holocaust in a German court, which also acknowledges the Holocaust, charged with violating German law by helping in the murdering hundreds of thousands of people during the Holocaust by a German prosecutor, representing the German people, who all acknowledge that the Germans perpetrated the Holocaust, be turned into a platform in support of Holocaust denial which pretty much states in implication that the court itself, along with the prosecutor, defendant, defender, witnesses, media, and tens of millions of people are lying with a handful of those who hate Jews declaring it never happened. I know this isn't your website and that you have a point in what you say but seriously, a fact is a fact and when every side in a story states that is a fact and some people troll on in and make this about how that fact never occurred and than, go on to talk about Israel and fictitious trains all being of German origin while everybody else, even those in the story admit the Holocaust occurred tells me that PF likes deniers despite lack of facts as they add to the post count as they certainly don't add to debate as the sky is blue, earth has gravity, water and oxygen and, a Holocaust occured with about 12 million Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals and other undesirables dead so can't fathom any other reason to allow childish debate on a known fact other than to up the post count.

The truth is a German man was convicted by German court of a German crime. That's the thread, not Holocaust denial which was thrown in there for no reason at all and was quite off topic to tell the truth. The legal system of Germany, courts, Judge, defendant, prosecutor and media all acknowledge the Holocaust occurred and the guy got five years and here you are as moderator saying the truth will come out. Seriously, do your believe that there is truth that the Holocaust never occurred? As moderator are you actually going to despute the Holocaust and show us all how the courts of Germany, defendant and prosecutor, millions of witnesses, perpetrators and victims are all lying ? There is no truth to come out as the Holocaust is an established fact.

Heck, all I said that they had nothing to fear by posting their nonsense here and am hardly infuriated merely stating a fact. You have proved they are more than welcome as you say it is perfectly fine to say millions of dead people never died and the millions who remember and mourn them are inferred to be liars on this forum and in fact, the whole thing never happened unless proven by some way other than the countless papers, reports, victims testimonies, photographs, confessions, movies, artifacts, confessions, court transcripts, witness reports, train, support, supply, posting, administration orders etc.

Lee, you seem like a nice guy just giving sound advice that fits most of the time but here, on a thread about a German guy in a German court for a German crime, why is posting completely off topic, completely disproved Holocaust denial hubris so important for you to defend?

 

Testimony at the trial of Reinhold Hanning: Max Eisen, February 18, 2016

My name is Tibor Eisen, also known as Max.
....
In May 1944, at the age of fifteen, I was deported – along with my entire immediate family and the other 450 Jews living in my town – to a brickyard in the city of Kassa (Košice). From there, we were loaded into cattle cars. There were approximately 100 people crammed into each car, and I was forced to stand for the entire trip, which lasted 2 nights and 3 days. There was one pail of water and one pail for use as a shared toilet. The water was consumed almost immediately and the bucket was never refilled. The slop pail of urine and feces spilled all over the floor of the cattle car. The stench, the physical discomfort, and the deprivation of all of our senses was a deeply dehumanizing experience. Two people died in our car and we had to endure the presence of their bodies amongst us for the duration of the journey.
.....
When the train stopped, I heard the doors of other cattle cars being opened and I thought that my ordeal must be over. I imagined that there could be nothing worse than what I had just endured. When our door was opened, light flooded in and a prisoner wearing a striped uniform and cap yelled out to us, “RAUS, SCHNELL!”
.....
My family and I had only a minute or two together on the platform and I was so happy to see my mother and my two brothers.
.....
To one side of this platform there was a plume of flame and smoke, and I thought, this must be some kind of a factory. I smelled burning flesh. Beyond the floodlit platform, all was dark. The men in the striped outfits told us that our bundles would be delivered to us tomorrow. Forcefully and systematically, they separated the men and women into different columns. All older males and children were sent over to the women’s line.

I found myself in the men’s line with my father and my uncle. My grandfather, my grandmother, my mother (still holding baby Judit), my two younger siblings, and my aunt were all marched away. Everything happened swiftly and we had no time to think rationally. The Kapos told us that we would be reunited the next day.
I found out later that my mother, grandparents, and siblings were all gassed in Crematorium II.

My father, uncle, and I moved forward in a single column towards an SS officer wearing white gloves. He looked at each person and with a flick of his hands, he indicated whether that person should go to the right or left. My father went first, then my uncle, and I was next. He looked at me and sent me to the same group as my father and uncle. We were guarded by SS soldiers and marched through a forest of birch trees with the other men who had been selected from our transport. We entered a building called the “Sauna,” where more of the men in striped outfits ordered us to hand over any remaining documents and jewelry, and told us to strip naked. They took our clothes away, but permitted us to keep our boots.

In the next stage of processing in the “Sauna,” our hair was cut from our heads, underarms, and groins by prisoners who wore striped uniforms. They had numbers and triangles printed on strips of cloth, which were sewn on their jackets. The man in charge of this unit wore a band on his arm that said Kapo (which meant boss) printed on it. The Kapos lined up the older people and had his men check if the new arrivals had gold crowns or fillings in their teeth. Those who did were taken aside, and their teeth were extracted on the spot with a pair of pliers. They ordered us to bend over and checked our rectums for hidden items.

The next stage of our processing was the showers. I had never seen a shower before in my life and I was in awe of the installation. There were numerous showerheads and large wheels used to control the flow of the hot and cold water. Although I had been in a mikvah (ritual bath) at home, it was intimidating to be naked in a large group of naked strangers. We had to lay our boots on the edge of the shower while we bathed and we kept a good eye on them because we had custom made boots that would last for a long time. Suddenly the Kapo and his helpers started to collect our boots. When my father saw this, he warned us and we grabbed our boots and kept them under our arms while we showered. Had we lost these boots, our lives would have been even more at risk. Those who lost their boots were lucky if they got a pair of wooden clogs instead. These clogs were more like a piece of 2 inch x 4 inch wood with a canvas top stapled to it. Our boots were treasures that we had to guard day and night.

The cruelty of the SS guards first became apparent in the shower room. While we were showering, an SS soldier who stood by one of the big wheels that controlled the water temperature turned on hot, scalding water just for sport. As we tried to jump around to avoid getting burned, another soldier with his truncheon would beat us to get back under the showers. Then he turned on the freezing cold water. A young man who was showering with us held his eyeglasses in his hands. They had very thick lenses and he was obviously short sighted. The rush of water washed his glasses out of his hands, and when he got down on his knees to try and find them, an SS guard came over and kicked him in the side of the head with his jackboots. The young man rolled over and the guard continued to stomp on his chest. I could hear the cracking of ribs. The guard, who was now in a frenzy, continued to kick and stomp on the man until he was dead.
....
After the processing in the Sauna was complete, we were marched, still naked, to a barrack where I was assigned to the middle of a triple-tiered wooden plank bunk without a mattress or blanket.

We awakened early the next morning and ordered to go outside of the barrack where I had my first glimpse of Auschwitz II-Birkenau. It was a bright, sunny morning. Two inmates brought a canister of hot tea out and we were lined up to get bowls (Shissels) for a ladle of tea. This was the first liquid I had consumed in 3 days. My father asked the men who ladled out the tea, “when are we going to see our families?” The inmate laughed and asked my father, “where did you come from?” My father answered, “We arrived during the night from Hungary.” The inmate said, “this is 1944 and you do not know what this place is all about? Your families have gone through the chimney.” My father continued questioning him, but I could not understand their conversation. In my naivety, I thought, how does a person go through a chimney?

We were given tattooed numbers. My father’s number was A9891, my number is A9892, and my Uncle Jeno’s number was A9893. We were given a camp striped uniform consisting of a cap, jacket, and pants. We had no underwear, socks, toilet paper, toothbrushes or any tool for grooming or care. We had no locker for storage. Whatever paltry belongings we had were on our body, day and night.

About one hundred of us were chosen for farm work and we were marched down the road to Auschwitz I. There, we were handed over to a Kapo named Heindrich, who was a psychopathic killer from a German jail. Heindrich introduced himself and told us that we were now in the Landwirtschaft Commando. The under-capo was a Polish political prisoner, Stasek, and the Commandant was Unterscharführer Kuntz, an Austrian. For the first few days in this commando, we had to harvest mustard with scythes and doing this work up to 10 hours a day caused my hands to blister, break open and bleed.

I lived on a 300 calorie diet a day, which consisted of a cup of tea in the morning and lunch was a ladle of soup that was mostly water and dinner was a cup of ersatz coffee, a thin slice of bread and a tiny square of margarine. This diet took a heavy toll on all of us. Our bodies were fast disappearing and breaking out in boils, and had my father and uncle not been with me, I would not have survived the first week in this place. I experienced the continuous pressure of hard work, beatings, very little food, and a body that was not functioning well. During the day’s exhausting work, there was no liquid given to us. I noticed that young men in their 20’s or so were falling by the wayside.
....
Another day after coming back from work, I saw my father and my uncle waiting for me inside the gate as they usually did. My unit was always the last to come back in the evening, and I always saw them waiting there for my return. A few times, they had managed to bring back a piece of bread or a potato during a work detail and they always shared their good fortune with me. As the work units came marching back to camp from their daily labor, the SS Sargent in charge of the gate scrutinized the prisoners to see if anyone was carrying contraband hidden under their jackets or pants. If he saw any suspicious demeanor, he would simply yell to the prisoner to lift up his hands and he pulled up his jacket. If he had anything hidden under his armpit, it would fall out. The SS would immediately take offenders out of the column and record their tattoo number and barrack. Eventually, back at Appel, the punishment would be meted out: sometimes lashes from a whip and sometimes reassignment to a Penal Unit (Strafkommando).
.....
On this particular day, their unit was working near a barracks called “Canada” (a place where the belongings of murdered prisoners were stored and sorted) and a girl from our town recognized my father and managed to slip him a chunk of bacon wrapped in a rag. My father smuggled it into the camp under his jacket. He slipped the piece of bacon under my jacket while we were standing in a huddle and my uncle blocked the view so that nobody would see this transfer. I was surprised that I was holding a piece of bacon in my hand. Coming from a traditional Orthodox family, we did not eat pork and yet my father told me that I must eat a little piece of it every day.
......
In early July, another selection took place. My father and uncle and I were in separate blocks by this time... By this time, I knew what selection meant. I remember wishing that the earth would open up and swallow me. We had to walk through a barrack, nude and in single file, where the SS doctors examined our bodies. A man right in front of me was stopped, and I continued to walk out the door. Had I hesitated one split second, I am sure I would have been on the list for the gas chamber. When I came back in the evening from our work site, I ran to the quarantine area and yelled out their names. Luckily, they came to the fence and we had only seconds to say goodbye. The SS guard in the tower was only 100 feet away and he yelled out to me to move or he would shoot. My father blessed me and told me that if I managed to survive, I must tell the world what happened here.

Twenty years ago, Dr. Carson Phillips who did volunteer work at the Auschwitz Museum Archives, found Nazi documents showing that on July 9th, 1944, my father and uncle were selected for medical experiments. This document exists as their last will and testament as well as their death warrant. I would like to submit these documents, in the original German and the English translation, along with my testimony for the Court to have as evidence.

Soon after my father and uncle were selected out, I received a life-threatening blow to the head by an SS guard. I lost a lot of blood and went into shock. I was thrown in a ditch on the job site. My feet would not hold me up. At the end of the day, I was put on a 2-wheel cart that contained all the shovels and other work implements. My fellow inmates transported me to the surgery in block 2l.

I was operated by prisoner doctors and a few days later, I was put on a stretcher with other injured prisoners who were destined for the gas chamber at Birkenau. Dr. Tadeusz Orzeszko, a Polish political prisoner and the chief surgeon in block 21, rescued me from the stretcher and took me back into the hospital. He gave me a lab coat and told me I was now an assistant to the operations of the surgery. I witnessed how this small camp hospital was all part of the deception. People did not have time to recover; many of them were loaded onto trucks shortly after medical procedures and sent to the gas chambers in Birkenau.
The drivers of these trucks returned several hours later to the operating room where they pulled bloody rags from their pockets that were full of teeth with gold crowns and fillings that I was instructed to remove with the instruments available to me. I was shocked to learn of these scavengers, who were enriching themselves in such a gruesome way.

Reinhold Hanning may deny his role in these atrocities. Although I do not remember his face, I can tell you that from the first moment I got off the cattle car in Birkenau in May 1944 — dazed from lack of sleep, food, and water — I was a witness to the cruelty of the SS guards who controlled the camp. Each one of them functioned as a cog in a well-oiled and destructive machine. Each one played a role in dehumanizing slave laborers and contributing to the Nazi genocide of the Jews.

To conclude my testimony, I want to tell the Court and Reinhold Hanning that to this day, I must live with these horrific memories, the unspeakable trauma of Auschwitz, and the nightmares about my experiences there. In particular, I have a recurring nightmare in which I see my grandparents, my mother, my three siblings and my aunt locked inside a crowded gas chamber, where the gas is spreading from the floor upward to the ceiling, engulfing everyone inside. I see them suffocating and dying while the SS officers watched this death struggle through reinforced, glass peepholes. This thought will never leave me.

https://auschwitz-trial.org/category/trial-testimonies/max-eisen/
-------------------
A horrific experience at such a young age! Is he telling the truth and nothing but the truth? I don't know.
There are many instances where I would say "but...."
We know the prisoners had mattresses and blankets, because they were regularly disinfected with Cyclone B.
Were prisoners recklessly beaten by the SS guards? We know that was not allowed and who transgressed was punished.
He talks about prisoners being gassed. Then there must have been gas chambers, although, there is no evidence! That's the sticking point.
Why would the doctors bother to operate wounded patients and then send them off to be gassed? What is the logic?
The gold teeth! I have heard that the Germans had collected trainloads of gold from Jewish teeth. Imagine!
Then his rations! I know, the Germans were starving too. There was little food in the cities. But to live and work on 300 cal/day with no water all day seems impossible to me. I know the German prisoners in Siberia didn't get much either, but they got at least a chunk of black, sticky bread per day plus some cabbage soup after work. They died like flies winter 43/44. Every morning 2-300 dead were thrown into a pit. Like the Germans, the Russian folk didn't have much to eat either.
That chunk of bacon his father snug to him... where did that come from? In the "Landwirtschaft" in Auschwitz they also raised pigs for slaughter. If they didn't get much meat, they certainly must have gotten some.

But... all this is not the fault of a fifteen year old boy, whether he be Jewish, German or Russian. I'm glad he survived.

Perhaps this can be a consolation to the Jewish survivors...
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/BuechnerAccount.html

 

Mr. Bedson, if your side is right and knows the absolute truth, why not sit back and ignore the other side? Why give them constantly more fuel?
Btw., I don't like that you accuse us flatly of hating the Jews. I don't hate anybody! You paint everyone of your opponents in this thread as an Anti-Semitic and holocaust denier. That is a gross insult. You know very well that in most European countries and Canada the "Antis and Deniers" are put in jail for up to five years. Only God knows why this is!

Revisionists do not deny the holocaust! They say it is not THE most important or only one that occurred in the 20th century.
Here is a website that explains the revisionists stance:
What is the basis for Revisionists asserting there was no attempted genocide of the Jews?
The lynch-pin in this argument is simply that there were no gas chambers. None. Zero. Nada. There is NO evidence of gas chambers that an objective person can find credible.

http://www.revisionists.com/revisionism.html

You see, they deny the gas chambers, but not that Jews were put in camps and suffered.

Had Germany won the war the Jews would have been given land in Russia from where they originally came.

 

Denying the extermination of the Jews by gas is holocaust denial, it happened, we have proved it happened and you people have done nothing but post garbage which we have debunked more times than we can count.

- - - Updated - - -

Hate speech is against the rules on this forum unless it is directed at Jews.

 

Really? I thought it was free speech here.
oh,by the way..there is no such thing as "hatespeech" that's a PC newspeak buncha bull.
No PC
No Newspeak
No SJWs
That's what I call Utopia.

 

Man! This is so good! And while obvious to most, you just did a fine job of stating the obvious so eloquently that there really isn't much left to say, but let us finally now see the evidence.

I am betting that once we eliminate all the personal attacks and the hatred that has spewed daily from the computers of those who believe the official exterminationist narrative, that all we will find will be:

a) tortured confessions
b) the repeated tales of known liars and crazy people known as "witnesses,"
c) faked photos, and
d) discredited forgeries.

If someone can prove me wrong, I am willing to learn. So, have at it, but don't forget that this is now at least the third thread that I know of on this board and we are well over 100 pages deep, and yet not a shred of proof has yet been presented that substantiates the exterminationists claims.

 

You have been shown the unequivocal evidence too many times to count you do not even attempt to refute it, it's laughable at this point.

You people have already been provided the Special Operational Reports of the Einsatzgrupen to the SS-Reichssicherheitshauptamt Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) detailing the targeting of Jews, the dates of the killings, where they were killed, and how many:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/sitreptoc.html

You have been shown the authentication of those reports by SS-Sturmbannführer Kurt Lindow chief of subdepartment IV A 1 [of the RSHA] who received them.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/authenticity.html

You have been provided the Jager report produced by SS-Standartenführer Karl Jäger, commander of Einsatzkommando 3 detailing the extermination of Lithuanian Jewry including nearly 40,000 children:

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocJager.htm

You have been shown the testimony of Morgen, Kremer, Böck, Hofmann, Hössler, Klein, Münch, and Stark, all high ranking Nazis, none charged with any crimes, who all came forward of their own volition to testify, and to this day have not recanted their testimony to their dying day,

You have been shown the Wannsee Transcripts outlining the Final Solution to the Jewish question.

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/wansee-transcript.html

You have been shown the testimony of SS Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann the man who took the minutes of the conference who confirmed them as authentic during his trial under questioning from his defense attorney's Robert Servatius and Dieter Wechtenbruch:in the German.

http://www.ghwk.de/ghwk/engl/texts/eichmanns-testimony.pdf

[video=youtube;kPFcMy1oLIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPFcMy1oLIA[/video]

[video=youtube;m3TqRrAK4e0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3TqRrAK4e0[/video]

You have been shown Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler's Poznan Speech of October 4, 1943 proving that Final Solution was a euphemism for extermination and not deportation:

I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people are being exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it, hah, a small matter.' [...] But of all those who talk this way, none had observed it, none had endured it. Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when 500 lie there or when 1,000 are lined up. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person - with exceptions due to human weaknesses - had made us tough. This is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned. [...] We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it, to kill this people who wanted to kill us.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/

And another on October 6, 1943:

I ask of you that that which I say to you in this circle be really only heard and not ever discussed. We were faced with the question: what about the women and children? &#8211; I decided to find a clear solution to this problem too. I did not consider myself justified to exterminate the men - in other words, to kill them or have them killed and allow the avengers of our sons and grandsons in the form of their children to grow up. The difficult decision had to be made to have this people disappear from the earth. For the organisation which had to execute this task, it was the most difficult which we had ever had. [...] I felt obliged to you, as the most superior dignitary, as the most superior dignitary of the party, this political order, this political instrument of the Führer, to also speak about this question quite openly and to say how it has been. The Jewish question in the countries that we occupy will be solved by the end of this year. Only remainders of odd Jews that managed to find hiding places will be left over.

You have been shown the comparative World Almanac census statistics for the global Jewish population showing a drop of nearly 5.5 million between 1938 and 1949.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/ftp.cgi?people//f/freedman.benjamin/background-data

You have been shown the Nazi document showing that an 80,000 cremation capacity per month at Auschwitz was insufficient.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/

You have been shown the details of the mass graves excavated at Belzec:

Grave 3 is 16 meters long by 15 meters wide by 5 meters deep (about 52 feet by 50 feet by 16 feet.)

Grave 10 is 24 meters long by 18 meters wide by 5 meters deep (about 78 feet by 59 feet by 16 feet.)

Grave 20 extends outside the current camp boundaries and so could not be completely measured. The part that could be measured is 26 meters long by 11 meters wide by 5 meters deep (85 feet by 36 feet by 16 feet).

More dishonestly, Mattogno fails to mention at all that Graves 1, 4, 13, 25, 27, 28 and 32 also contain unburned remains.

Therefore, out of 10 graves that held whole human remains, Mattogno only acknowledges 3 of them.

Grave 5 contains "pieces of burnt human bones so densely packed together that the drill could not penetrate further." The grave is 32 meters long by 10 meters wide by 4.50 meters deep (about 105 feet by 33 feet by 15 feet).

Grave 6 is 30 meters long by 10 meters wide by 4 meters deep (about 99 feet by 33 feet by 13 feet). It contains "carbonized wood and pieces of fragments of burnt human bones. At the east end of the grave, the ground is covered with gray sand containing a mixture of crushed pieces of burnt and unburned pieces of human bones."

Graves 3, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33 all contain fragments of burnt human bones, human ashes and carbonized wood.

Grave 14 is the largest in the camp. It contains "burnt pieces of human bones and fragments of carbonized wood mixed with grey sandy soil to a depth of 5 meters." That is about 16 feet deep.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspo t.com/2006/05/carlo-mattogno-on-belzec.html

You have been shown the unrepentant testimony of SS-Gruppenführer Otto Ohlendorf head of Einsatzgruppen D outlining the rear actions of the Einsatzagruppen regarding the intentional murder of ethnic Jews in the East based on their blood including the women and children:


Q. What were these orders?

A. These orders had as their purpose to make it as easy as possible for the unfortunate victim and to prevent the brutality of the men from leading to inevitable excesses. Thus I first ordered that only so many victims should be brought to the place of execution as the execution commandos could handle. Any individual action by any individual man was forbidden. The Einsatzkommandos shot in a military manner only upon orders. It was strictly ordered to avoid any maltreatment, undressing was not permitted. The taking of any personal possessions was not permitted. Publicity was not permitted, and at the very moment when it was noted that a man had experienced joy in carrying out these executions, it was ordered that this man should never participate in any more executions. The men could not report voluntarily, they were ordered.
Q. Why did you not prevent the liquidations?

A. Even if I use the most severe standard in judging this, I had as little possibility as any of the codefendants here to prevent this order. There was only one thing, a senseless martyrdom through suicide, senseless because this would not have changed anything in the execution of this order, for this order was not an order of the SS, it was an order of the Supreme Commander in Chief and the Chief of State; it was not only carried out by Himmler or Heydrich. The army had to carry it out too, the High Command of the Army as well as the commanders in the east and southeast who were the superior commanders for the Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos. If I could imagine a theoretical possibility, then there was only the refusal on the part of those persons who were in the uppermost hierarchy and could appeal to the Supreme Commander and Chief of State, because they had the only possibility of getting access to him. They were, after all, the highest bearers of responsibility in the theater of operations.

Q. Did you not try in Nikolaev to dissuade the Reich Leader SS from this order?

A. The situation in Nikolaev was especially depressing in a moral sense, because in agreement with the army, we had excluded a large number of Jews, the farmers, from the executions. When the Reich Leader SS was in Nikolaev on 4 or 5 October, I was reproached for this measure and he ordered that henceforth, even against the will of the army, the executions should take place as planned. When the Reich Leader SS arrived at my headquarters, I had assembled all available commanders of my Einsatzgruppe. The Reich Leader addressed these men and repeated the strict order to kill all those groups which I have designated. He added that he alone would carry the responsibility, as far as accounting to the Fuehrer was concerned. None of the men would bear any responsibility, but he demanded the execution of this order, even though he knew how harsh these measures were. Nevertheless, after supper, I spoke to the Reich Leader and I pointed out the inhuman burden which was being imposed on the men in killing all these civilians. I didn't even get an answer.

Q. Now, I cannot pronounce it correctly, the Karaims were another sect whom you encountered in the south of Russia, and this sect had no Jewish blood, but it did share the religious confessions of the Jews. Is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. You submitted to Berlin the question whether the Karaims should be killed, and I understood you to say that the order you got from Berlin was you shall not kill them for they have nothing in common with the Jews except the confession?

A. Yes.

Q. Will you explain to the Court, please, what difference there was between the Karaims and the Krimchaks, except Jewish blood ?

A. I understand your question completely in reference to the eastern Jews, in the case of the Jews who were found in the eastern campaign. These Jews were to be killed-according to the order-for the reason that they were considered carriers of bolshevism, and, therefore, considered as endangering the security of the German Reich. This concerned the Jews who were found in Russia, and it was not known to me that the Jews in all of Europe were being killed, but on the contrary I knew that down to my dismissal these Jews were not killed, but it was attempted at all costs to get them to emigrate. The fact that the Karaims were not killed showed that the charge of the prosecution that persons were persecuted for their religion is not correct, for the Karaims had that Jewish religion, but they could not be killed because they did not belong to the Jewish race.

Q. I think, Witness, you answered exactly what I had antici-

*Sect which refused the Talmud and adopted the Old Testament as sole source of faith.
**Turkish Jews of mixed Semitic and Tartaric blood.

Page 275

pated in the last sentence, "They did not belong to the JewishRace," is that right?

A. Yes, That is right.

Q. They were found in Russia?

A. Yes.

Q. But they participated in the Jewish confession in Russia?

A. The Karaims had the Jewish faith, yes.

Q. But your race authorities in Berlin could find no trace of Jewish blood in them?

A. Yes.

Q. So they came absolutely under the Fuehrer Decree or the Streckenbach Order to kill all Jews?

A. Yes.

Q. Because of blood?

A. Because they were of Jewish origin. For you must understand the Nazi ideology, as you call it. It was the opinion of the Fuehrer that in Russia and in bolshevism, the representatives of this blood showed themselves especially suitable for this idea, therefore, the carriers of this blood became especially suitable representatives of the bolshevism. That is not on account of their faith, or their religion, but because of their human make-up and character.

Q. And because of their blood, right?

A. I cannot express it any more definitely than I stated, from their nature and their characteristics. Their blood, of course, has something to do with it, according to National Socialist ideology.

Q. Let's see, if I can understand it; we've got a lot of time, I hope. What was the distinction except blood?

A. Between whom?

B. Between the Karaims and the Krimchaks?

A. The difference of the blood, yes.

Q. Only the difference in blood, is that so?

A. Yes.

Q. So the criterion and the test which you applied in your slaughter was blood?

A. The criteria which I used were the orders which I got, and it has not been doubted during the entire trial, that in this
Fuehrer Order the Jews were designated as the ones who belonged to that circle in Russia and who were to be killed.

Q. Tell us how orders that you operated under in 1941 in Russia differed from the order which controlled killing of Jews in Poland in 1939 ?

A. In Poland individual actions had been ordered, while in Russia, during the entire time of the commitment, the killing of all Jews had been ordered. Special actions in Poland had been ordered, whose contents I do not know in detail.

COL. AMEN: Were all victims, including the men, women, and children executed in the same manner?

OHLENDORF: Until the spring of 1942, yes. Then an order came from Himmler that in the future women and children were to be killed only in gas vans.

COL. AMEN: How had women and children been killed previously?

OHLENDORF: In the same was as the men - by shooting.

COL. POKROVSKY: You said that mostly women and children were executed in these vans. For what reason?

OHLENDORF: That was a special order from Himmler to the effect that women and children were not to be exposed to the mental strain of the executions; and thus the men of the kommandos, mostly married men, should not be compelled to aim at women and children.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): In your testimony you said that the Einsatz group had the object of annihilating the Jews and the commissars, is that correct?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): And in what category did you consider the children? For what reason were the children massacred?

OHLENDORF: The order was that the Jewish population should be totally exterminated.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): Including the children?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): Were all the Jewish children murdered?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/Einsatz2c.htm
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/Ohlentestimony.html

You have been shown the report from SS Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler to Fuhrer Adolf Hitler entitled "Report to the Führer on Combating Partisans", stating that 363,211 Jews had been killed by Einsatzgruppen in August&#8211;November 1942.



You have been shown the Höfle Telegrams sent by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle on January 11, 1943 to SS-Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann in Berlin and SS Obersturmbannführer Franz Heim in Cracow detailing the number of deaths of Jews in the concentration camps.



You have been shown the Korherr Report written by chief inspector of the statistical bureau of the SS, Dr Richard Korherr outlining the population drop of European Jewry (4 million not including substantial portions of Eastern European Jewry and Jews within occupied Soviet Russia) from 1937 to December 1942.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.o rg/holoprelude/korherr.html

And now you have been shown the searchable database of over 4.2 million names and back stories of Jewish victims of the Shoah compiled by Yad Vashem.

http://db.yadvashem.org/names/search.html?language=en

You are trolling at this point so every post you make from here until eternity on this subject you will be met with the previous incontrovertible facts, enjoy your stay.

 

As stated: ...all we will find will be:

a) tortured confessions
b) the repeated tales of known liars and crazy people known as "witnesses,"
c) faked photos, and
d) discredited forgeries.

 

Sorry about having to tell you that in a German telegram from the Chief of SS to Adolf Hitler no typos should occur. "Erfolg" is written with an "o", not like in "Bandenbekämpfungserfulge" (Success in fighting Partisans) with "u".#

The catagories under point 2: "festgenommen" (arrested) and "exekutiert" (executed) would at least contain a word if those having been executed were from the group of those having been arrested, or if that counting comprises 2 completely different groups and if C) "Jews executed" overlap with a and b or must be added to the body count. Even more funny is the next telegraph with "OMX de OMQ", "de" is French, meaning "from", in German it would be "OMX von OMQ". The "de" even shows, who fabricated the proof. An absolute no brainer is the sentence: Because Russians remove or bury their deaths, those losses have to be validated even higher. "Bewerten" is a qualitative, not a quantitative noun. "Bewerten" means "to validate" or "to evaluate". In the message however nobody says: those losses are "good" or "bad" and "have to be re evaluated to be better". The author means:Original losses are higher in numbers and therefore would have to say: Diese Verluste müssen als höher angesehen or "gewertet" werden".
Conclusion: If you fabricate documents, make sure to be firm in the document's language and grammatics.

By the way: Nikitchenko was public prosecutor in the notorious Moscow Trials in the 30's, which even the communist party of the USA regarded to be Kangaroo courts. No confession ever in friont of such a court can be used as evidence anywhere. Have a look what the defendants in the Moscow trials "confessed".

 

Good stuff! But, don't think for a second something like obvious and longtime, proven forgeries will get in the way of him posting the same discredited post again and again.

Heck, it doesn't even bother him that the purported German confessions were written in English and signed by men who never spoke English.

This isn't even a problem:

 

The guy you defend was in the SS---the worst of the worst. These are the Germans who committed atrocities. They were a disgrace to humanity in my opinion. Perhaps this whole thread should have been sent to the conspiracy theory section. That is a more appropriate place. Either you believe that the Holocaust happened or you don't, but I don't think you are gaining any believers that it didn't. Evil exists. Man's inhumanity to man exists. As humans we must make sure that we try to prevent this from happening again. If you don't learn from history and its evils, you are doomed to repeat it.

 

I believe this thread should be moved to "conspiracy theories."

 

"THAT WHICH ABHORS THE SUNLIGHT OF HONEST SCRUTINY .......

You seem uncomfortable with the reality that so many people are seeing history's most egregious frauds dismembered by open & honest discussion



Which would you consider to be the most outlandish "conspiracy theory":

1. That one European country fighting a losing war on 3 fronts, with very few resources would devote an immense amount of those resources to, moving, feeding, housing, providing medical treatment for the end goal of killing 6 million people when there is no physical evidence of their haven done anything but trying to save them from typhus [*], [1] ( a disease that produces hallucination and paranoid delusions)

EXCERPT "The revealed information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics."CONTINUED[1]. [2]

OR

2. That a gang of proven frauds & con-Artists [3] [4] concocting multiple bizarre "extermination" (steam, electrocution, pesticide, infant dismemberment) theories & riding on the back of victorious Armies would concoct a multi-Billion Dollar extortion racket to plunder an industrious country full of innovative & hard working people that have been previously proven ripe for plunder under the Treaty of Versailles.





I speak & read German fluently & have on numerous occasions read deliberate mistranslations "documents" used as "proof" by demented Holocaustians mesmerized by ghoulish & grisly Tall Tales & photos of emaciated & twisted corpses.

Once an outrageous fraud has already been exposed as such by the "Human Skin Lampshades", "Human fat soap", "Shrunken heads", its credibility is already gone & the crass motive of base extortion already exposed.

_ _ _ _ _


[*] &#8220;So, why do people believe in the holocaust?&#8221;

http://guardian.150m.com/holocaust/why-believe.htm

EXCERPT "Clearly then, this US film footage DOES NOT, and NEVER DID, prove genocide of Jews.

So, the emaciated prisoners and corpses shown in the US film footage, had to have some other cause, or causes.

In fact, the other causes have long been known, but hidden by the Jews. Generally, the Germans managed to adequately feed the prisoners of the concentration camps, even with the transport system under sustained attack. Many photos are available which show thousands of reasonably well-fed prisoners. For example, this photo from Dachau (taken on liberation):

What actually happened, was that procedures aimed at holding various diseases in check, broke down under the pressures of war. The main killer, was Typhus. Typhus is spread by lice. Zyklon-B was an insecticide used to kill the lice that spread Typhus. The Typhus epidemics that raged through the camps (in both the first and second world wars) killed many thousands. If you suffer from Typhus, your body wastes away and you look as if you are starving to death. Typhus, is the reason for most of the severely emaciated prisoners and corpses."CONTINUED


[1] "Breaking the Spell, The Holocaust: Myth & Reality" by Nicholas Kellerstrom --

https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Spel...ll+kellerstrom
EXCERPT / REVIEW OF BOOK &#8220;In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German &#8220;Enigma&#8221; code. This undermined the German war effort &#8211; but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communications between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to &#8220;arrivals,&#8221; &#8220;departures,&#8221; recorded deaths and other events at these camps. The only reasonable explanation for this embarrassing omission is that the intercepted data seriously contradicts, even refutes, the orthodox &#8220;Holocaust&#8221; narrative.

The revealed information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.
Were the British here hoodwinked by the Nazis, as some historians to this day try to claim&#8212;or is the truth both simpler and more shocking?
In 1988 and 1991 forensic studies threw light on the question of whether or not the claimed gas chambers at Auschwitz had served as slaughter houses for hundreds of thousands of people." CONTINUED




[2] &#8220;Typhoid fever&#8221;
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/typhoid-fever/basics/complications/con-20028553

EXCERPT &#8220;Jul 11, 2015 ... Typhoid fever &#8212; Comprehensive overview covers symptoms, ... Psychiatric problems, such as delirium, hallucinations and paranoid psychosis.
Complications
Psychiatric problems, such as delirium, hallucinations and paranoid psychosis&#8221;CONTINUED&#8232;




[3] &#8220;Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust&#8221;
http://balder.org/judea/The-Most-Fa...ap-Lampshades-Fertilizer-Mengele-Miracles.php

EXCERPT " &#8226; Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen

&#8226; William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years

&#8226; Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis

&#8226; Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses

&#8226; Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated

&#8226; Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood"CONTINUED




[4] &#8220;Holocaust Claims Conference fraud likely &#8216;much higher&#8217; than $57 million&#8221;
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

 

Thanks for showing yet another of the countless Holocaust® frauds.

Any one of the images / photos you've shown so far would cause an open-minded & honest individual to reconsider their belief in the "Holocaust®" myth

This one is especially good because our desperate gaggle of Holocaustians can even try it at home.


Keep up the good work

 

Grau, I refuse to copy your long reply which I didn't bother to read. The fact that you read German is hardly a surprise. You can believe what you want, and I will do the same. This really should be in the category of conspiracy theories. I am not blinded by antisemitism.

 

this image is pathetic.

the stadium can hold many more people than just 90,000.

 

800,000 Jews shipped to Treblinka.

no records of any being shipped away from Treblinka.

only 67 Jews were at Treblinka when the Soviets got there.

where did the other Jews go?