The Time for a Strong Third Party in the US

If you've been tuning in to the Presidential Elections lately, I'm certain there are those of you who feel both the GOP and the Democrats have in their own respective ways, lost touch with the American public and betrayed our interests. The GOP, despite the strict rules they implemented, constantly and desperately attempted to thwart Donald Trump's nomination even though he was completely in his right to campaign as a Republican candidate. And the Democrats deliberately and willingly compromised the integrity of their own nomination process for the purpose of pushing forth Hillary Clinton's nomination. The GOP has displayed themselves as nothing but irrational and shameless bullies and the Democrats exposed as deceitful, manipulative liars to the faces of the American people.

Long have we known that both parties have equally tainted themselves in corruption and disservice to our fellow Americans, and long have we foolishly allowed them to continue these dishonorable practices without retribution. Now stuck between two bad choices because of both parties' utter incompetence and selfish agendas, we are left with no other choice but to affect the seats of Congress directly and retake our government from the disillusioned Establishment, for true power lies not with the President or the Supreme Court, but Congress itself. That, my fellow Americans, is the Real Leech of the United States, to which we have neglected for so long.

I propose we form a new party. A party that aligns itself not with ideology, not with policy or agenda, but for the People themselves! As a whole, we come from a wide range of the political spectrum, but is it not true that each and every one of us only wishes for the best of ourselves and our fellows? We should not allow those who have such clear lack of respect and dignity for the very people they serve to continue their reign any longer! No "Liberal" policy, no "Conservative" policy, only People Policy! For Politics is merely the making of policy for the people, and it is this fact that we must stand together against these Corruptions and truly revitalize America! No more gridlock, no more stalled legislation, no more infighting! For it is only when we recognize that we all fight for a Common Cause that we may put aside our differences and march together under Our Shared Flag.

I say we all band together and cast these parasites out for the treacherous fiends they are and start working for All America.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Nothing ever starts easy, but every bit of support goes a long way. Good tidings to you, Good Sir.

 

Two words: Duverger's Law.

 

First thing you need to do is speak of specifics and not generalities.

 

If specifics is what you ask, then I will put it more straightforward terms that we should be seeking to implement Practical Policies, not policies that depend on one's ideological agenda. Real issues that affect everyone indiscriminately, like food, water, poverty, health... these kinds of issues are not some abstract morality issue such as freedoms, liberties, and so forth, but issues that depend on the best solutions, not whatever solution you want to have. When people's livelihoods depend on good policy, there is no gray area in that regard. It either works or it doesn't. Why our elected leaders choose to speak about "Ideals" and "Righteousness" when the country is still reeling from economic disaster and unending deficits is utterly ridiculous. We should be choosing to save the choking monkey first before comforting the crying monkey. Much of the issues still discussed today such as high college fees, job outsourcing, taxation, and the like could be solved by simply strengthening the economy and getting government deficits under control, however little has been done on that front and instead has taken a back seat compared to less imminent problems, such as terrorism and immigration. Even those can be addressed with enough resources at hand... but unfortunately it goes back to that same issue of leaving the economy to bleed out on its own, hence why everything seems so entwined with "ideology" rather than common-sense planning.

 

Like what?

Ah.
Platform item #1: Practicality trumps liberty.
Gotcha.

Like what?

 

Policies that are effective and efficient at whatever their aims are. Immigration? The conservatives propose tossing out all the illegal aliens and shutting the borders close. The liberals propose allowing illegal aliens to stay and ease them into society. The more practical solution would be to simply strengthen the border control enforcement we already have and provide the resources to speed up the process of legal immigration. Complete documentation, planning, citizenship, the whole batch. However, because of the lack of resources invested into already-enacted immigration policies, you have this massive influx of undocumented immigrants. So what happens? Both parties try to cover up their failures to enforce their legislation and instead push the issue as an "ideological" issue. And doing that instead of the more common-sense approach gets you a lot more votes...

To be fair, we've never had that much liberty to begin with. We Americans love to preach how much freedom we have and the liberties we're entitled to, but the government has been gnawing at it for a long time, even from the very beginning of American history when freedom of speech was suppressed with the Alien and Sedition Acts. As long as the government has the ability to protect our rights, they also have the ability to stamp it out if necessary. The Founding Fathers purposefully built an exceptions clause in the Constitution for this purpose. We almost take these things for granted that such powers haven't been abused yet, but nowadays it seems to be coming to that. Ensuring that everyone is content with their own lives by providing for the people's basic needs is a building block for providing for greater freedoms and liberties in the future. Before people can celebrate in leisure, they must first craft the things necessary to have that celebration. Things don't come free, you know.

Almost everything you do in your daily life is connected to economy and its growth, whether you like it or not. How high your taxes go, how much you have to pay for gas, electric, insurance, the quality of schools, neighborhoods, public areas, etc. etc. It's almost impossible to escape from it since someone down the road has to pay for the things you walk on and live with. So what happens when there isn't enough money to pay for those things, then? Systems start to falter, things become neglected, and more chaos ensues as a result. Both parties have repeatedly pushed aside that basic issue despite the negative consequences in the future, and instead focus on appealing towards the effects economic policy has on people. "Oh, higher taxes are bad!" "Oh, we should raise minimum wage!" Notice how they only address symptoms and not the tumor that's been eating away at us nonstop. It took a half-trillion dollar stimulus to keep a Repression going toward a Depression, but that's only a temporary solution to a growing problem. If we want the majority of the problems we discuss today to be fixed, we have to strengthen our economy to outperform our top competitors. Federal funding is shrinking at a rapid pace, the economy is not recovering fast enough, and the wars we wage to subsidize the markets are dragging us deeper into an abyss we cannot escape from.

To compare the current situation we face ourselves in, I turn to Tywin Lannister's quote on the Iron Bank...

"One stone crumbles and another takes its place and the temple holds its form for a thousand years or more. And that's what the Iron Bank is, a temple. We all live in its shadow and almost none of us know it. You can't run from them, you can't cheat them, you can't sway them with excuses. If you owe them money and you don't want to crumble yourself, you pay it back."

 

The problem is not the parties it is the system.

What makes you think a third party will not end up just like the two we have now? Is there something different about them that will allow them to work outside of our current system of laws and rules?

Do you realize the republicans were a third party at one time?

No matter what party gets in power they will all end up behaving the same way until you change the underlying system.

 

Certainly weve all seen how the DNC constantly and desperately attempted to thwart Bernies nomination. What did the RNC do?

 

Your People's Manefesto sounds really nice and heartwarming and it,s like lollipops and colorful balloons and green meadows with paths of cobblestones meandering through idyllic valleys and rolling hills and fields of wild flowers broken only by clean safe villages and towns where no crime or sickness exists and there is a satisfying job fir everyone with great pay and benefits earned through hard work and respect for and by everyone.

But alas this place of perpetual paradise exists only in your dreams and you will wake up soon return to the real world of partisan in and out fighting where criminals run amok and all politicians lie and all liars politicize everything.

 

You bring up a good point. What indeed might stop this third party from becoming corrupted and mislead in the future, as it so has with the both the Republican and Democratic Parties?

Several ideas come up to mind. Changing the underlying system is a valid idea, however the extreme complexity and legal obligations make that difficult to achieve. To change the underlying system would be to completely overhaul what the Founding Fathers built this country on. That means purging the Supreme Court of any affiliations with political entities, reworking Congress so that elections do not play a vital role in policy-making, and readdressing the President's role in government. Perhaps given a few solid decades, that would be a reality, but that would have to be done on a grand scale, and quite frankly I doubt Americans are inclined to want to mess with the system they've lived with for hundreds of years.

That leaves the other option that could be considered to sidestep the government system altogether... the Party itself overseeing its own operations. Although at this point, it is merely my own conjectures, I'd be happy to discuss with the rest of you how we can develop a system that protects against self-corruption for the party...

Taking from the ideas behind the Supreme Court and Civilian Oversight, the Party would place upon itself supporters who volunteer their time to review reports and oversee Party candidates and politicians. Alongside supporter oversight, there are the more senior-appointed Directors whose purpose is to basically ensure everyone is doing their jobs and stamp out anyone who tries to abuse their positions. As part of their appointed roles, Directors cannot seek political office and must enforce the common policies agreed upon by the whole Party regardless of their own views. Thus, you may very say they follow the saying of Voltaire...

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

With their senior positions comes the fact that Directors would receive a plethora of details regarding the politics of government, and thus would be more informed and experienced about the subject than the volunteer supervisors. Both are expected to work together in curbing corruption and ousting those that attempt to dishonor the Party's name by jeopardizing its integrity or any other significant wrongdoing.

Out of everyone, I expect the Volunteer Supervisors to not be corrupt and do the right thing, as they do represent the entirety of the Party, coming from all walks of life and thus are less prone to bias when prosecuting for corruption. The Party should not play easy simply because the people accused of wrongdoing is their own: they should prosecute them as much as anyone else who commits the wrongdoing. Not only does it preserve the integrity of the Party, it elevates the Party's Honor beyond that of mere squabbling politics and therefore the trust with the People in that we unquestionably wish for the best for everyone.

Again, this is merely my own version, but further discussions on this could very well help formulate a better system for the Party.

 

Oh, by all means, remind us of the cruel Reality of this world! Just because I preach Union among all walks of life doesn't mean we can't get our hands dirty every once-in-a-while! Part of advocating Practical Policy is realizing that there's no such things as just Black-and-White in the real world, and that it comes in every shade of gray imaginable. Accepting the fact that anything goes if it works opens the door to a lot more possibilities. For example, replacing the death penalty with torture instead and make it part of "Rehabilitating" criminals. Just an example, but it makes for more flexible options

 

No we do not need one strong third party. We need four strong parties. We need to build both the libertarian party and the Green party into major party status alongside the other two. We need them all getting some convention time. We need them all at the debates, we need all of their platforms covered and all of their tickets to get plenty of public exposure and scrutiny. We need more breadth of ideas and a broader scope of ideological visions and social beliefs in front of us.

I am tired of picking between a hot dog with relish and potato salad, or a hamburger with fries and a pickle.

 

So Four Strong Parties instead? That would still bring us into deadlock if you assume the Green Party allies with the Democrats and the Libertarians with the Republicans... assuming they all have equal representation. Odd numbers help break ties because you can't reach a stalemate otherwise. That and the current parties we have right now mostly caters to their own niches, practically leaving everyone else who doesn't follow their ideas out in the cold. Simply throwing more parties into the mix is not really a solid solution to ending the Two-Party system we have today. There has to be more solid foundations to that.

 

A "Strong" Third Party will never happen.

That is just the way that American politics works.

In the end a vote for any Third party (in a competitive Electoral state), in a POTUS election, will always equate to a wasted vote.

 

There was no lack of desire to shop thecTrumpeizdas but they were not successful. Funny so many people who have called and continue to call Demotrats socialists now all if a sudden when a real socialist appears and tries to take over the Democratic party but fails those who saw the phantom socialists now pine for a real socialist who failed.

Why is that? Did you all become socialists almost overnight? No that cannot be it. Is it that if the Demkcratic party was successfully taken over by a socialist you would be ecstatic and know that you could beat this socialist interloper.

No such luck guys the socialist was vanquished

 

1. I do not expect them to so ally because their interests and views are not mere extensions of a left/ right plane. I do not expect each to get exactly the same number of anything. Stalemate can come with three parties if one of them is split in view between the other two. Your 'party' will act no differently than any other. Your ideas are no better, your candidates no better simply because you declare them to be.

 

Who said we had to aim for a POTUS election? The real power of government lies with Congress, not with the President as many others like to believe. Congress makes the laws themselves. The President cannot introduce his own laws, he has to get another congressman to do it on his behalf. Even then, if the President tries executive orders, Congress can override that if they so wish, but that would means Congress would have to take charge then. Winning Congress solidifies a Party's chances at winning the Presidency, as that typically translates to the People's chances at voting for the Third Party President by extension. Build up small, gain credibility at the local levels and state levels, then expand and watch supporters flock by the masses. As Spooky kindly mentioned above, the Republican Party was once a Third Party. Nothing is an impossibility if others have proved it to be possible.

 

Close. Have a cupie!

If political parties want to exist, fine. But, where is the legal justification for supporting their existence?

Is not even the identification of political party contrary to the intent of the 1st? But consider all of the laws and bureaucracies that exist at every level of government for no other reason than to protect this duopoly.

Do away with all of these government interventions into the political process and it will level the playing field for everyone.

OK. Now let's all hold our breath while we wait for anyone in Congress to propose that legislation.

 

You claim we need four strong parties, but why exactly four strong parties? Why exactly Green and Libertarian? There are numerous other options out there. If the general idea is to throw as many political parties into the arena and see which one comes climbing out on top, one of two options come out. Either parties have to compromise and they form coalitions, just like the political parties in Europe, or everyone reaches deadlock in which case nothing gets done, which is practically the same thing as having just two parties. If parties are split, they don't stick around and bite the dust, they split and form their own group. For dissenting members to actively fight their own members is like the equivalent of a couple who simply doesn't get along but for some odd reason never considered divorce. Unless you have better ideas than to simply sit around and bash other people, I suggest you refrain from going further, lest problems should arise.

 

From reading this comment, it's obvious that you don't need any hypothetical third party; you're a Democrat. Now you may not know it, but I'm betting if you had to choose your version of the lessor of two evils this fall, you'll vote for Hillary.

See I've saved you a lot of time.

 

Well it wont do any good for this election. So we have Trump and the unknown of what he will do. Or we have the corrupt, deceitful, dishonest, lying Hillary and the Democrats. Knowing they will continue more of BO peeps failure, will continue to break rules and laws and will always put themselves above the law.

 

Where did that conclusion come from? Where in my text have I suggested you should vote for someone like her? I'd rather save my integrity than have to get involved in such a turd of an election this year...

I simply suggest an alternative political party that does not tie itself down with ideological obligations. A literal Third Option if you will.

 

I picked the four existing parties with the most support currently. I presume their platforms will evolve with market demands. I am not wedded to the number four as opposed to five or six , but if you have too many it becomes pragmatically impossible for media to cover them all. Your idea is just naïve silliness.

"I propose we form a new party. A party that aligns itself not with ideology, not with policy or agenda, but for the People themselves! As a whole, we come from a wide range of the political spectrum, but is it not true that each and every one of us only wishes for the best of ourselves and our fellows? We should not allow those who have such clear lack of respect and dignity for the very people they serve to continue their reign any longer! No "Liberal" policy, no "Conservative" policy, only People Policy! For Politics is merely the making of policy for the people, and it is this fact that we must stand together against these Corruptions and truly revitalize America! No more gridlock, no more stalled legislation, no more infighting! For it is only when we recognize that we all fight for a Common Cause that we may put aside our differences and march together under Our Shared Flag"

You are offering some sort of declared 'anti-party populism as though it is some game-changer that will not obey the same forces as the Democratic or Republican party or all the rest, except there is no broader scope of ideology that is represented without libertarian or green party ideas. Matter of fact there is no ideas at all. Its a bunch of flag waving with no definition, substance or purpose except to express your exuberance in a 'peoples' party.

Its got all the merits of a chorus of 'God bless America'. Nice song, but that's all there is.