The Politics of the Surreal

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by garyd, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    It began really with George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential campaign, came of age in the election Campaigns of 2008 and 2012, and has, hopefully, reached it's peak in the presidency of Donald J. Trump. The left has become increasingly unhinged from reality, and it is destroying them. They hated Bush. They loved Obama, who became, in essence, their Great Black Hope, and because they could never get beyond the fact that he was Black and he was President, and because of that they could not separate out the man and the policies he espoused, and because of that the left has increasingly painted itself into a political black hole which has become all consuming with the election Donald Trump.

    They played and continue to play the Stupid card against George W Bush. It still isn't working. They'd played and are continuing to play their entire deck of opprobrium at Donald Trump it still isn't working and it won't work because no one, out side their own little circle, believes it. They keep playing their deck of hate, and because they barely even try to debate actual policies, they are at the lowest in terms of political power since the Great Depression and if they don't try something different they will have reached the bottom of a zero sum political game with only California keeping them from being completely by the time the dust settles after the 2018 election. And no this new wave of brown shirts wearing black isn't different and it won't change the tide though it may well intensify it as it gathers strength and that may not be good for anyone.
     
  2. onecut

    onecut New Member

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    You nailed it!!! Now you can try to explain why Trump is the is the most minor of our minority presidents. Why he has protestors from coast to coast. Why he has told 20 lies just this week and why he has attained majority disaproval in only two weeks of governance.
     
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    What twenty lies? He started out with that disapproval the left and its minions will continue to try to sabotage him at every turn.
     
  4. An Old Guy

    An Old Guy Well-Known Member

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    More like the politics of the unreal......
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Trump is already the most unpopular President in history and we've only just begun.
     
  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Again he started out that way. And yes we know NYC and CA hate him. That's takes care of most of the hate right there. A goodly chunk of the rest of the country likes what he's doing. He is trying to keep his campaign promises I know that is surprising to leftist and most everyone else but get used to it.
     
  7. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with you that he is keeping campaign promises. However, the problem is that most people in the US didn't vote for those promises, not just the people in NY and CA. Trump is issuing executive orders like he has an overwhelming mandate by the people, and he simply doesn't. A "goodly chunk" is not the majority by any stretch of the imagination. He barely won in three states to give him the electoral college, but not with the majority of voters. He seems to not realize that there are three branches of government and he only has charge of one. Unified government does not mean there is no checks or balances. The people are the final check and balance. So, he's getting pushback and it doesn't surprise me in the least.

    Most Americans are not far left or far right. Most don't even claim to be a Democrat or a Republican. Most are moderate and don't want big ideological swings in government. After 6 years of literally nothing coming from the Republican lead Congress than repealing Obamacare, Republicans are now finding that people don't want to lose their health care, especially when replacing it with something terrific is empty words. Congress seems to be hearing the people. I'm not sure Trump will. Americans were told to take Trump seriously, but not literally. He contradicted himself constantly during the campaign, so it made sense that he wasn't going to do everything he said. However, he is literally doing just what he said he was going to do in the campaign, and people literally don't want to lose their health care or have the Constitution stepped on. So, there is your conundrum… most people didn't want Trump to be President, and even those that did weren't for everything Trump promised to do, yet he is moving fast to get everything he said accomplished. It feels rushed and chaotic because it is, and in the meantime, he's alienated allies like Australia.

    On another note- I have a big problem with the fact that Trump never uses the words freedom, liberty, or Constitution. I don't know that it is deliberate or oversight, but it is notable in a country based on freedom and liberty provided by the Constitution. When people accuse him of authoritarianism and fascism, hearing him say those words would be helpful, but he doesn't and hasn't from the start of his campaign until now.
     
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Sorry outside of California and NYC The overwhelming Majority did vote for those policies. Just without California Trump wins the popular vote by more than a million.
     
  9. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To the bold above...No, they didn't. Trump does not have a mandate. The pushback you are seeing is exactly because Trump is pushing forward with campaign promises that more people didn't want than did.

    I will fully and completely support you on saying that Trump won the electoral college, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what the majority of Americans want. Below is from Wikipedia… check the red and green numbers. They show Trump did not have majority behind him in the election.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TH]Nominee[/TH]
    [TD]Donald Trump[/TD]
    [TD]Hillary Clinton[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Party[/TH]
    [TD]Republican[/TD]
    [TD]Democratic[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Home state[/TH]
    [TD]New York[/TD]
    [TD]New York[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Running mate[/TH]
    [TD]Mike Pence[/TD]
    [TD]Tim Kaine[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Electoral vote[/TH]
    [TD]304[a][2][/TD]
    [TD]227[a][2][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]States carried[/TH]
    [TD]30 + ME-02[/TD]
    [TD]20 + DC[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Popular vote[/TH]
    [TD]62,985,105[/TD]
    [TD]65,853,625[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Percentage[/TH]
    [TD]45.9%[/TD]
    [TD]48.0%
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Even more important, Trump is losing support almost daily.

    I get that if you are a Trump supporter, you think he should get to enact the entirety of what he ran on. He's doing just that, but he doesn't have the American people behind him. He only has his supporters behind him, and like it or not, they are not the majority.

    I think this chart tells the story better than I could… Trump has majority disapproval, and the lowest approval rating of any President since they began approval ratings… including one that was impeached and one that resigned before he was impeached.

    [​IMG]



     
  10. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This very accurately describes what has happened to the democrat party. Unless the real democrats throw out all the radicals of Obama and Hillary what is laid out by the OP will come to pass.
     
  11. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    The Left controls the vast bulk of the Mainstream Media and the party that controls the media controls national messaging . . . to an extent. Obviously it is not perfect in its control or coverage or average citizens would not have ignored the combined messaging of Obama/Hillay/and the Left-Allied MSM to vote Trump into office.

    The polling numbers? Those depend on the source used. Leftist sources have him at the bottom of the barrel whereas other sources have him in the fifty percent zone. Leftists BELIEVE leftist sources and pure leftist political propaganda, which is why they are increasingly talking to themselves in a nearly perfect closed range echo chamber effect reinforcing their own propaganda with one another rather than saying anything that the rest of the nation wants to hear.
     
  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Good Job wall of text and pictures disproving absolutely nothing I said. She won the pop by just under three million votes she carried CA by more than 4 million. Inother words she lost the entire remainder of the country outside of CA by roughly a million and a half. She lost more counties than any candidate since Mondale.
     
  13. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, you said:
    and I just proved that the overwhelming Majority did NOT vote for those policies. So, I did disprove something you said.

    Politics is surreal because a man without a majority is attempting to govern as if he did have the majority. That you want to discount votes in NY and CA, two of the most populous states is strange. That's like saying the Steelers won the Super Bowl if you discount the Patriots and the Falcons.
     
  14. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Most of the people in California and New York didn't vote for Trump. Thank God they don't represent the country.
     
  15. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No you didn't please note the part about outside of California. Again sir you can govern and direct policy as you believe to be best for this country or you fiddle around for 4 years and make things worse. If your vision is correct and jobs do come back and the economy does take off, you'll be in a stronger position two and four from now. If you are wrong and things get worse you're gone. In the end it all comes down to how much faith you have in your vision and Trump has near unshakable faith in his, so he governs according to that vision. Whether you or I like it or not is wholly immaterial to its success or failure of his vision and its implementation.
     
  16. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    California is part of the United States. To discount those voters, and then claim that the majority of the US voted for Trump is disingenuous. My point remains. Trump is getting major pushback from the people because he is pushing forward his agenda without a mandate from the people. They don't want what he is doing with his executive actions.

    However, by all means, continue to discount the votes from the largest state in the union and continue to believe that Trump has a majority mandate and the people are happy.
     
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Of course he is. However his party has control of the government so that push back such as it is has little impact and will have less as time goes by if his policies get the economy going. In fact much of that push back will decline.

    By the way Trump is himself push back against the establishment's failed policies.
     
  18. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you seriously underestimate the 53% disapproval rating that Trump now has, and that the disapproval rate has only grown larger since inauguration. I also think you seriously underestimate the amount of pushback that is taking place and the energy behind the dissatisfaction.

    However, I can see that numbers aren't going to sway your thoughts on the subject. I do not share your optimism that Trump is going to improve the economy. I wish that I did, but I just don't see it in his plans nor his actions.
     
  19. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like trump needs to cut off the welfare so these bums have to work which will get them off the streets.
     
  20. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    We shall see. Lowering taxes and simplifying the tax code along with removing some of the Economic over burden should more than suffice to push economic growth well over the three percent GDP growth that Obama never managed.
     

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