Abortion is as unjust as slavery. An American historical perspective.

It should be a matter of personal choice but the government should not be responsible for paying the cost.

 

That's fine, but we're talking about setting ethical/legal standards. The only starting point I can imagine for an ethical standard is whether somebody is hurt by the action. It is unethical to stab a puppy because the puppy suffers. It is not unethical to stab a stuffed animal, assuming you own it. A fetus who has not achieved consciousness bears no more ethical relevance than sperm or eggs, which are also on the continuum of this process that leads to a person developing.

 

Your response comes across as base and just a tad despotic in nature

 

No, they addressed your post point by point, you just couldn't figure out a response(had no answers) so you blame it on me....

WHO is squirming? YOU are the one who can't address posts!

Sorry you don't believe in law. I'm not hiding behind anything(that's another "squirm/deflect" rather than addressing what was posted).

I have staed numerous times why it's right...a fetus is not a person until it's born.


Here's another issue you hide from:

IF a fetus is deemed a "person" and given rights that all other persons have with those rights comes RESTRICTIONS...FOR EVERY PESON.

One restriction is that persons can't use another's body to sustain their life.
YOU cannot force anyone to give you a life saving blood transfusion or a new heart... NO ONE can do that. SO the fetus cannot use a woman's body to sustain it's life. NOR, as a PERSON can it harm another without the other's consent.

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Because that would UNprotect women.

You're free to argue with the Supreme Court on that but they rule

NO, not always...only about 7% of sex acts end up in pregnancy.

So is a miscarriage......as to "natural.... a lot of things are "natural" that doesn't mean we have to accept them..

Consent to one act is not consent to any other act. I know you hate law but it rules and it makes that a fact of life.

Women do have the right to end it....

Which makes no sense and proves nothing..."the train has left the building "

 

WHERE does the government pay for it? The Hyde Act prohibits federal taxes from going to abortions....IF, and that 's a big fat IF, you have evidence of wrong doing, and I doubt it, then call the authorities......go ahead, tell them, and ME what your evidence is....
Personally I think those who think women should be discriminated against for having a LEGAL medical procedure are...well, I can't say or my post will be deleted...

 

You don't believe in the right to campaign for laws to change, that's an interesting position to take. If that's what you believe then there isn't a point to debating the issue is there.

But I am not hiding from that issue , I addressed it with my remark about conjoined twins. You claimed it was impossible for one to die and the other to live. You missed the point and lied as if one of the heads was cut off the other could live in a number of cases.

As a side note: You forgot the T in stated , unless you meant to use a different word of course.

And then you keep the Fetus unprotected even though if someone kills a women carrying a fetus it's counted as a double murder. Seems odd that only the women gets to choose what is and isn't murder.

But you know darn well what sex is designed for and so does nearly every human being on earth. So yes my comment still stands that it's a quite natural result.

Death is natural, I may not like it but I have to accept it. When people make mistakes they also must accept whatever naturally happens, if you jump off a plane 30k ft in the air you will hit the ground and you will die.

If I were to take a loaded gun to my forehead and pulled the trigger knowing what it's designed to do am I not consenting to all of the natural result's of that first action?

Just like the white dudes had a legal right to enslave blacks at a point in the past.

 

Why? Point out any errors:


"""Spare me your "What I want killed is OK, what women want killed is not OK...""...

Abortion is a tolerated reality and will continue to be part of mankind's political and social experience as it has been for centuries...

......and if you truly believed that "we're all in this together" you'd mind your own business, leave women alone, and go do your "preferred killing" and let others do their's......"""

 

Camapign away...go ahead, nobody 's stopping you.....but you better come up with a GOOD argument containing facts and you haven't done that so far...

More garbled BS...you'll have to do much better in court

I'm sure such a simple thing confused you.

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No, it's not.

WHERE is that done? Answer since you don't answer those inconvenient questions : No where.

"Murder" has nothing to do with abortion and you'd better figure out all those big words before you write your congressman

....or stand in court presenting your case...

 

Camapign away...go ahead, nobody 's stopping you.....but you better come up with a GOOD argument containing facts and you haven't done that so far...

More garbled BS...you'll have to do much better in court

I'm sure such a simple thing confused you.

.


No, it's not.

WHERE is that done? Answer since you don't answer those inconvenient questions : No where.

"Murder" has nothing to do with abortion and you'd better figure out all those big words before you write your congressman

....or stand in court presenting your case...

Sex is for fun and NO just because a woman might get pregnant, a natural result, "NATURAL is not a law....Did you think everything that's natural is a LAW ? How ridiculous. It gets dark NATURALLY at night so we can't turn on any lights!!!!!! The Nature God says we can't defy nature!!!!
HILARIOUS!!

I'm sorry you feel that if you buy a car and it turns out to be a lemon, has all kinds of problems, you think you can't EVER get rid of it...you MUST pay for the action of buying it. You must be PUNISHED for your error.
Well, if YOU want to live like that, that's fine but who are you to tell people to live so stupidly???

Another attempt at a analogy you don't understand....need to do better in court They'll laugh that out!!!

YUP, Anti-Choicers want to force women to have kids just like the slave owners did....

 

An addition to my other response in post 284:


You: """You don't believe in the right to campaign for laws to change, that's an interesting position to take.."""

I didn't take that position .

But you want the laws changed so that people can be FORCED to use their bodies to sustain the life of others? FORCED to die so someone else can use their heart for a transplant? Forced to give their blood to others??

How barbaric!

IF a fetus is deemed a "person" and given rights that all other persons have with those rights comes RESTRICTIONS...FOR EVERY PESON.

One restriction is that persons can't use another's body to sustain their life.
YOU cannot force anyone to give you a life saving blood transfusion or a new heart... NO ONE can do that. SO the fetus cannot use a woman's body to sustain it's life. NOR, as a PERSON can it harm another without the other's consent.

 

Sorry you didn't understand what I had implied. Guess I am used to debating at the collage level and most people there don't need things spoken so directly. My mistake.

Not at all just pointing out a mistake of yours.

Oh yeah it is: http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

Read the law and weep as states do file for murder charges for the killing of a fetus. Lied AGAIN

Read the point I made above where your quite childish remarks are shot down by the law.

You fell right into it, this is too rich. Tell me when your going to write a collage level paper that the human sex drive evolved the way it did solely for fun instead of you know making humans want to reproduce. I would love to read it, but I am getting the feeling that there are many reason's it's not going to happen.

Nope but if it says all sales are final then your screwed as your unlikely to easily resell it. People are punished for errors all of the time, it's how they learn how to be carful and think before they do. It's called growing up as an adult and a person.

Honestly I think with the kind of remark's you make your the only one who would be getting laughed out of court. But hey keep it up, I enjoy it as it's quite funny.

And pro choicers want to be despots over the fetuses life. Nothing new under the sun I guess.

 

Yes, I agree , you couldn't address the issue.

Homicide is not murder. And the UVVA specifically says the law does not apply in any way to abortion. ...glad to help with your confusion.
It has to do with consent, something you can't understand.

You made no point.

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I'm so sorry, I forgot there are people who don't consider sex fun and don't understand those who do...

Again, THANK YOU for ADMITTING THAT FORCING WOMEN TO GIVE BIRTH IS PUNISHMENT

Sad to see you'd keep a car that was so bad....most people are smart enough to get rid of it....

...and Anti-Choicers want to take away women's right to their own bodies, be despots over women...and PUNISH THEM for having sex as YOU admitted

 

Because 1. it is not a person and 2. giving it rights would take some of women's rights away.

Smoking naturally leads to lung cancer but we don't make it illegal for them to get the tumours removed.

I disagree that adoption is the better way. Adoptees are at higher risk for problems as are relinquishing mothers.

Good thing you don't get a say in anyone's pregnancy but your own.

 

As a standard I see a developing human while you see an "it, simple chattel, property"

Behold, a human timeline vs a question of identity. Dred Scott was seen by some as property, far less than a being deserving humane treatment, respect and a right to his own life, conversely many, perhaps most of mankind, thought he was human. The parallel and kinship of slavery and abortion, empowered self-serving selfishness.

 

This statement is really personally offensive and seems quite bigoted to me as an Asexual. Making me a sub-human/person with this needless statement has lead me to end to debating this issue any longer. Degrading my statements based on my total lack of a sex drive isn't cool.

I hear this stuff all of the time when people talk about sexual stuff asking why I don't date people and then they say I must be a homosexual. When I claim it just doesn't interest me they mock me for it as though I may as well just be a useless eater just because I don't care about sex like they do. This kind of dehumanizing based on if a person enjoys an action is quite the bigoted stance to take and I hope you see the error in that.

 

Currently a brain dead human is seen as not deserving a right to life. We kill them every day

 

WHOA! STOP RIGHT THERE..

The issue YOU brought up wasn't YOUR sex life!

YOU claimed that sex was ONLY for procreation, as if that was some kind of point against abortion and I pointed out correctly that sex is for fun...


DO NOT TRY to make this an attack on YOU because you have no other argument or points or facts ....

 

The parallel and kinship of slavery and abortion? = slave owners ALSO FORCED women to give birth. They ALSO thought women were animals to be used as cattle..

 

Sex is not only fun, there are proven health benefits. Since living healthier can extend life, a good pro life argument would be that we should pass laws forcing asexuals to have sex in the interest of extending life. Just as enforceable as abortion laws, right?

 

My memory is not what it once was but I do recall a statement, be it from Plato, Socrates or another prominent historical philosopher ruminating on the freedom of not to being encumbered by sexual desires/distraction. Much in life is perspective deciphered by our senses...or burdened by them.

 

This mindset of yours comes across as quite a cold-blooded one, especially so since you target the most defenseless of humanity.

 

Do they die of natural causes or are they dismembered, spinal cord severed or their skulls penetrated by cold metal?

 

Less than human, as the unborn are thought of these days? You do see the connection between slavery and abortion.

 

So?

Why? Point out any errors:


"""Spare me your "What I want killed is OK, what women want killed is not OK...""...

Abortion is a tolerated reality and will continue to be part of mankind's political and social experience as it has been for centuries...

......and if you truly believed that "we're all in this together" you'd mind your own business, leave women alone, and go do your "preferred killing" and let others do their's......"""


Is the bolded in blue not true??? What is untrue in any of that statement ???
Try to answer instead of throwing out pouty insults....but if that is all you have I guess that's all you have ....

 

Who thinks of a human fetus as less than human ??? I don't...it's all human...

Here's the part of my post you quoted that you try to ignore :

The parallel and kinship of slavery and abortion? = slave owners ALSO FORCED women to give birth. They ALSO thought women were animals to be used as cattle....just like Anti-Choicers do...