Is taxation a form of slavery?

The problem occurs when the Congress passes a law that includes punishment that they claim is not a tax, despite the fact that government is supposed to operate with the consent of the governed ,,, then the tyrants argue in the Supreme Court that their punishment is in fact a tax. It really becomes a problem when, under threat of being called a racist, the Chief Justice violates every tenet of his mandate under the law to invoke affirmative action and level an attack against the taxpayers of the country to give the last black President an unearned legacy. This is not unlike the Nobel prize that was reduced to a participation award.

 

Stop trying to deflect away from the fact that people are forced to choose. The government tells you, you give us a share of your earnings or we'll send men with guns after you, and then we'll throw you in prison.
That's the income tax in a nutshell.

 

using the word slaves is disingenuous, at best. Are some of your liberties taken away? sure, you know why? because you have agreed to be part of society, but you have a lot liberties, you are not a slave. If you want to walk around naked, not pay taxes, jerk off in a public park, yell obscenities at a restaurant, school class.. then you don't want to me a member of society and maybe we need the world to have a piece of land for people like you... We can call it 'Anti-Social Island' and this way, we can make people like you feel 'free', totally free.

 

and this is the price to pay for having a society, seems you don't want to be part of society. Please answer my other post where i ask all of you to explain to me how we could have a society without taxes. I'm all ears..

 

Would you prefer if I used the term "taxed but free man"? Still slavery to me, which is why I defined the word "slavery" in a previous post. It doesn't matter what you call it, so long as we can agree on the definition.

 

No I do not think it is a form of slavery. I do however think it has turned into another system of regulation for a lot of people though, it has turned into a way of creating social equality instead of doing its job of paying for the infrastructure of whatever group it is covering.

I am pretty Libertarian so if I had it my way in a pure world, the taxes would be AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. But realistically we have other issues to look at. Here is my full proposal.

Tax is created by us in our system, therefor our taxes are basically the will of the people. Lower taxes promotes growth, I know some on the left try to argue that but it is pretty much an accepted fact at this point. However we must add pieces of "Socialism" in our system in order to keep unrest down to a minimum. From a 100% economic view, unrest is INCREDIBLY BAD for business. I would rather have a 5% higher tax rate over 20 years than all the sudden have tens of millions in damage over 20 nights. Being so, we have to adjust the tax rate accordingly.

I think overall corporate taxes should be much lower in the neighborhood of 15-20%

I do believe in trickle down economics but only to a point as I think it is MUCH more true in corporate taxes where most companies (except the mega's) don't really want to hold on to large amounts of cash. If you give businesses such a lower tax rate the velocity of their money and the means with which they have to buy a workforce as well as logistics will shoot through the roof. The "trickle down" in corporate taxes is 10 fold of that in personal taxes IMO.

I think we should have a progressive personal tax system fairly similar to what we have now. I personally would like to see personal taxes remain the same (maybe 2-3% higher for all brackets however) with an extra bracket for those that make over one million dollars per year. The top tax bracket now is something around 35-40% depending on the person, that now second tier would remain the same (+2/3%) so I would say the new top bracket to be around 50%.

These rates would still promote growth and would add much needed government revenue and would do a lot to help the social divide. On the business side of things, I think the majority of people I know, even staunch Republicans, have expressed at least their understanding with this idea. I think it is a pretty compromising trade and would do a lot of good in a lot of different ways.

So no, taxes are not a means of slavery: 1) They are a means to run the infrastructure needed by the group in use of it. 2) They are a useful tool to help with the social divide in the country.

The kicker with taxes though (and this would effect me A LOT) is that we need to kick almost every write off to the curb. This is a HUGE thing for most people, it is just the "big meanie" that most the "99%" talk about so people don't admit it.

I will, I personally take home probably another $100k after everything is said in done in both corporate and personal write offs! Anyways....

These three things I have proposed, the 2-3% increase, the new tax bracket at over $1M in income @ 50% and the elimination of write offs would do wonders to helping with our deficit and debt, if we want to really get serious that is. I think they are reasonable and as someone in the current top bracket as well as owner of a $10M+ revenue business, I think these are fair ideas that would be greatly helpful to the country.

Now, start another thread for the MASSIVE amount of cuts we need in redundant programs and over inflated "feel good" projects. It goes perfectly with my tax plan, IMO....

 

Don't trying to dictate my own motives to me, guy. Seems like you don't understand a simple concept.
Next, I hate to break it to you, but we can function as a society without income taxes.

 

okay, i'll agree with this if you agree, irrespective of taxes, we are slaves because we can't jerk off in a public park, walk around naked, sell our bodies for sex, do drugs etc.. These are examples of liberties which have been taken away (all are negative rights which you really like) so this makes us slaves? If your answer is 'yes', then you would be consistent.

my other point is that whining about something that is necessary in a society, is just a waste of time. Why do you think no Country on Earth charges no taxes? Some people think Bermuda, Bahamas, Monaco charge no taxes but there is tax income even in these countries. Fact is that no society can function as a 'Country' without some tax collection so what is the f point of whining about it unless you believe in not having a Country and just a land with everyone fending for themselves?

Now, complaining about the amount of taxes and what they are used for is one thing but just taxes in general? what's the point..

 

why isn't there 1 country without some sort of tax collection? and no, Bermuda, Bahamas and Monaco do collect taxes in case you were going to list them. Humans have thought about this through thousands of years, much more than you have and there is reason why taxes exist, very good reasons. This has been arrived at by people who have thought about it in great lengths, people through thousands of years.

the only alternative is a land with no protected borders and people fending for themselves, as in the movie 'The Postman'

 

You don't seem to understand what income taxes are.
These countries have no INCOME taxes.

• Bahamas
• Bahrain
• Bermuda
• Brunei Darussalam
• Cayman Islands
• Kuwait
• Qatar
• Oman
• Saudi Arabia
• United Arab Emirates

Your argument fails. Get a new one.

 

wrong! the subject is taxes, not just income taxes. So you are ok paying other forms of taxes? how come? Bermuda, Bahamas and all those countries do charge taxes.. now if you tell me you are okay paying property taxes or other forms of taxes, explain to me why the inconsistency. Again, the subject is taxation, not just income taxes.

Try again... which Country doesn't collect any taxes?

 

You seem to be confused. There is nothing inconsistent about opposing income taxes, and not opposing other taxes. It's a pretty simple concept actually.
Don't want to pay property taxes, don't own property. Don't want wanna pay for highways, don't purchase gas.
See where I'm going with this?

 

I chose other because it can be used for means that are very valid, police force, roads, etc; but it certainly can become a form of slavery when the government uses it for questionable policies.

 

Taxation is not a form of slavery. The taxed individual can enjoy a great deal of personal freedom.

Taxation is a form of extortion or to use a delightful British formulation "demanding money with menaces."

 

well, the subject is taxation in general but your logic is flawed.

you don't want to pay property taxes? don't own property

you don't want to pay for highways? don't purchase gas

you don't want to pay income taxes? don't work, live off welfare. Alternatively, move to Bermuda or Bahamas.

i think you need to be consistent, it's either all or nothing.

 

There's certainly a correlation between positive rights and slavery, so yes, I would kinda agree, except for one fundamental difference. Slavery in all its forms seems to place a price to pay for freedom.

One example I find relevant to this conversation is a female slave who asked her master to let her work for her freedom. He agreed and said she could purchase herself for 1,000 dollars. She was allowed to work on a steamship selling food to the passengers, so long as her master received 20% of her salary. She could keep the rest which would go towards the purchase of her freedom, which she eventually did.

In this example, there's no doubt that she's a slave. The 20% is just like an income tax, and the other 80% was used to pay for her freedom.

The only difference I can see is that she was able to purchase her freedom, whereas tax payers cannot.

This is not true. There was no tax on any domestic product all up until 1791 when Washington put an excise tax on whiskey (distillers had to pay the tax) to help pay for war debts incurred during the revolutionary war. To say that this tax was wildly unpopular is an understatement. It was eventually repealed by Jefferson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

How spineless and compliant we have become compared to the badassery of our forefathers.

 

Flawed logic is on your part.
Don't wanna pay income taxes, live in poverty. That's what you're saying.

What's the deal with your authority worship?

 

yeah, Constitutionally legal and authorized

 

I thought it was for the common defense ?

 

i gave you options where you can avoid being a 'tax slave'. Now it's interesting that you consider income tax a form of slavery but not property or sales taxes? so basically you are okay with being forced NOT to own property, one of the most basic rights, because if you do own it, you become a tax slave. Hmm... interesting, fine.

as far as authority worship, agreeing to pay taxes in order to make sure we have national defense and provide for a safety net (so fellow citizens who can't provide for themselves can survive) is your definition of worshipping authority? tone down your anger towards government and make some sense, just calm down.

 

The first income tax was referred to as a war tax to help pay for the invasion of the South in 1861 when Democrats refused to except the outcome of the 1860 Presidential election.

 

nope, to provide for common defense, the general welfare of the nation, and to pay debts

 

Flawed logic is flawed logic, you're not helping your case.

I destroy your post, and I'm the angry one? Ya, that's not how it works, sparky.
You want people in jail, if they don't pay a percent of the income they earned. That's some major anger issues, dude. You need to work on that. Get one of those squeeze balls, or something. It might help.

 

The phrasing itself is an affront to those who endured and still suffer the consequences of "slavery". An embarrassing phase in our history that did a lot of harm to too many people and their descendants.

I would suggest that anybody wishing to make an argument against taxation (in general) should just make their case. Not just arbitrarily redefine terms that have connotations appropriate to their consequences.

 

Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Like what if we only used a sales tax?