Why the world should adopt a basic income

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Allow me to offer an illustration that any simpleton could follow:

    FB_IMG_1541257269785.jpg
     
  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Libertarianism in just one chart:
    [​IMG]

    American "libertarians" have the people by the short-'n-curlies:
    *Giv'em guns that way they can shoot one another and reduce their percentage of the population
    *Don't giv'em a free postsecondary education, which reduces the ability to "control them". They'll get finicky! Let'em rot in poverty, swill, dope and alcohol if need be; and fewer of them will go vote on the Left!
    *No, NO WAY! Neither National Healthcare nor Free Tertiary-education! The former means a longer lifespan and the latter means they vote in the Center and not the Hard Right. CAN'T HAVE EITHER!!!
    *So what if we get most of the Net-of-taxation Wealth! It has to go to somebody in a country with such low upper-income taxation! Why not us?!? We paid for it!!!!!

    Wakey, wakey, America ... !
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    CARTOON!

    Bollocks to your neophyte simplicities that make no logical sense whatsoever in any real economic context. They nonetheless play well like a cartoon to simpleminded children and childlike people.

    Fortunately life does NOT reduce itself to a cartoon. Not if your smart enough to see the manipulation.

    Most on the Rabid Right are not that intelligent ... which is why you (plural) need a cartoon to argue politics.

    UNDERSTANDING AMERICA

    To understand what is happening in America requires only a few simple viewpoints:
    *That unbridled capitalism has allowed a tiny proportion of the American population to amass great fortunes that they do not "deserve". Because the ultimate source of those fortunes is neither the stock-market nor finagling interest-bearing bonds/mortgages at very low levels of upper-income taxation.
    *It is We, the Sheeple, who work our asses off driving an economy to make just-a-living. The ultimate beneficiary of which is You, the Peeple who, by amassing fortunes due to lax-taxation, have manipulated the popular-vote to maintain your political primacy of the nation. (Where the Word-of-God is Thou shalt not raise Upper-income Taxation that the Lord allowed Reckless Ronnie to reduce in the 1980s!)
    *
    The US is no-longer a Real Democracy. It has become a Manipulative Aristocracy of the Filthy Rich*.

    Wakey-wakey, Uncle Sam ... !!!
     
  4. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Your peaceful neighbour?

    Donald Trump said (during the 2016 campaign): "you are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones, your young men are in prison, your schools and hospitals are broken…."

    And you are living in the delusional world of Libertarianism.

    Begin by learning about individuals' motivations based on the (unconscious) instinct for survival.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. Monopsonistic power is derived through several mechanisms. Labour Economics has focused, in particular, on job search. That derives the same outcome as traditional "one buyer" approaches: i.e. firms have wage making power and therefore are able to underpay workers relative to what should happen in competitive markets which exhaust mutually beneficial exchange. However, it also ensures modelling consistent with empirical reality.

    It does not. The analysis is simple supply and demand, adapted for asymmetric information problems. It guarantees monopsonistic power. There is no debate in it.

    Your position seems to be 'head in the sand' orientated. By ignoring the economics, you think you can ignore the coercion demanded by right wing ideology. That's of course your prerogative. However, it certainly provides an example of how right wing thought is simply inconsistent with libertarianism.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SOME LESSONS IN EFFECTIVE DEMOCRACY

    [QUOTE="LafayetteBis, post: 1069892046, member: 72696"UNDERSTANDING AMERICA[/QUOTE]

    Understanding American history goes a long way.

    Of course, one might say, "Well, you (plural) DID VOTE the Replicants into control of the HofR in 2010!

    Yes, we the sheeple were sooooo pissed-off (in the 2010 midterms) that Obama did not "do his magic" and rectify the employment-earthquake of the Great Recession that we voted not only the HofR but finally (in 2013) the three seats of political power (Executive, Legislative and Judicial) into the hands of the Replicants!

    What did they do? First chance - with a Replicant PotUS who HAD LOST THE POPULAR-VOTE but became president anyway - they tried to destroy ObamaCare. Then they rushed through Congress a reduction in already far-too-low upper-income taxation!

    Errors that we, the sheeple, just corrected in the mid-term vote. But the damage is done - that is, Income Disparity in America, already one of the worst in the developed-world, has worsened even further - and if you don't believe that then just see here ...

    And another lesson in democracy:
    *If you think democracy is the freedom of NOT SHOWING UP IN THE POLLS because you are "pissed off with the system", then think again. (You are simply allowing those who DO MANIPULATE THE VOTE to win!)
    *In 2010, just after having voted Obama as PotUS by a handsome margin, barely 41% of voters voted to change the majority of the HofR and give it to the Replicants. (See that fact corroborated here.)
    *
    The HofR, in turn, refused all further stimulus-spending to speed the economic reconstruction of employment that had plummeted. No new jobs were created in the American economy from 2010 to 2014. (See here.)
    *If we don't get off our collective arses to vote, we - the sheeple - don't have any good reason to bitch-'n-moan about the economy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When responding will you PLEASE punch the QUOTE-button such that the person to whom you are addressing your remark is visible and notified !!!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  8. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Coercion? So if I offer to hire someone to assist me in my wood shop, how exactly am I coercing him?
     
  9. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    What Trump said is of no interest to me. I disagree with your position. I have no right to take my neighbor's property.
     
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  10. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I've gone through this multiple times, so playing pretend won't wash. The existence of monopsonistic power necessarily leads to destruction of exchange.
     
  11. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    So according to you by offering to hire someone to assist me in my wood shop I'm coercing them. So what do I do instead, bring them in as a private contractor? Would that also be coercive?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You continue to deliberately misrepresent. It is as ugly as your efforts at personal attack.

    I have referred to the reality of supply and demand, repeatedly. Given monopsonistic power, we know that the anti-minimum wage position of right wingers is supportive of destroying exchange opportunity. Such destruction has to be deemed support for coercion.
     
  13. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    They've seem to lost their sanity.

    They seem think we are on we right.
     
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  14. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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  15. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to misrepresent. I'm simply asking you to clarify your position.

    Is offering to hire someone to assist me in my wood shop coercing them?

    If it is, what alternative do you suggest I undertake? Should I contract with an independent business to have the work I need done? Would that not be coercion?
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Your question is the effort at misrepresentation. It has nothing to do with what I've said, as you well know. I will, however, keep repeating....

    Monopsonistic power must include coercion as it generates economic rent. We also know that right wing demand to remove minimum wage protection is a call for coercion as it is a demand for destruction of mutually beneficial exchange.
     
  17. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I understand that's what you've said.

    I would like to know whether you consider me offering to hire someone to assist me in my wood shop to be coercing them?
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I have no interest in answering irrelevant questions to the discussion. That discussion refers to market failure and to right wing ideology demanding the destruction of exchange.
     
  19. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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  20. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so I'll take it that we agree that offering to employ someone doesn't involve any coercion.
     
  21. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Dodge noted.
     
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  22. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    What should the basic income be? $10,000, $20,000? $30,000?
     
  23. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Lol...I just saw this smatering of *********...

    FB_IMG_1542477471898.jpg

    You haven't a clue of which you speak. I'm not on the right. Perhaps you should actually take the time to learn about something before criticizing it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  24. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    They'll never convince me that I have a right to take my neighbor's property. They may believe they do, but they're never going to convince me that I do.
     
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  25. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    No one has been able to explain how one convey a right they do not have to another person. It is like me stealing your car, and then me giving your car to my daughter for her birthday.

    Knuckle dragging neanderthals don't understand that their ideas come from the time of when men lived in caves and used clubs to take what they want. They still do.
     

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