Biden to unveil new "plan" to stop Delta variant on Thursday.

But it's NOT the same old bullshit... I was as surprised as anybody POTUS Joe is going this far to get this done...

I can tell the was not the same old because my conservative friends on PF.com were all but coughing up a lung screaming at the sky last evening..

The thought that ran through my head was the classic Far Side cartoon...

 

Follow your secondary God

Dr. Phil responds to people's excuses not to get vaccinated: 'Are you f***ing kidding me?'

SNIP
“When you look that 90 percent of the people that are dying are not vaccinated, do the math, this isn't hard,” he said. “This is not chess, it's checkers. This is easy to figure out.”
ENDSNIP

Of course, asking conservatives to do math is a fools errand, but some of this cowboy logic might seep into a brain or two

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...nated-are-you-f-ing-kidding-me-071309264.html

 

Dr Phil? Wtf that guy sucks

 

He mostly does, but he's still right...

 

We went from: "Take the vaccine, we'll be immune to the virus" to "take the vaccine, it reduces the symptoms." And we now have empirical evidence that an increase of vaccine taking will not equate to a reduction of viral spread. Literally, there's no logical chain of thought that says "the vaccine will turn the tide against the virus, or that it's good for public health."

In fact, given the increased viral load it is more dangerous for public health.

 

JFC….you know that YOU have had multiple vaccinations right?

 

It is the same old bullshit - get vaccinated. In the most highly vaccinated countries on the planet, cases are surging. So, if Biden brings us up to that point, cases will still be surging. Same old bullshit.

 

Living up to your avatar name I see..

You simply dont know what will happen with 95% vaccination..

We do know what's happening with the current numbers.

 

Yes we do though, see: Israel. It's gotten to the point where people are wondering whether a 3rd booster will 'work', and it's laughably inane at this point. If we take away the emotion from the vaccine, we could say simply: Doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result is insanity.

The virus can be tamed, but it cannot be removed from our ecosystem at this point. Whether 100% vaccinated or not.

 

Israel isn't much higher vaccinated than the US if at all (58% of eligible population of 3 weeks ago)

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

And nobody is claiming vaccinations will remove COVID... It will suffice if hospitals are back to normal and deaths are few...

 

In the most vaccinated places on the planet at 80%, cases are SURGING. What on Earth makes you believe we would do better than the most highly vaccinated places on the planet? And, we were told before that 80% is needed to reach herd immunity, and yet in those countries cases are SURGING. The fact is, while the vaccines appear extremely good at greatly reducing hospitalizations and deaths, they aren't worth a crap at stopping the spread. If 100% were vaccinated, cases would still be spreading. That is why the most highly vaccinated places on the planet are experiencing SURGES. It all comes down to:

Are the vaccines working or not? If they are, then it doesn't matter if someone else is vaccinated or not because if YOU are vaccinated, you have nothing to worry about, unless you are afraid of breakthrough infections.

So, you then say, "what about those breakthrough infections or the innocent children under 12 who can't be vaccinated? Why should they suffer because of the unvaccinated"?

And I say, if you are really worried about breakthrough cases and children under 12 then why are you perfectly fine with a football stadium filled with 80,000 only vaccinated people when vaccinated people have been proven to spread the the virus, which in turn leads to breakthrough infections and young children getting the virus?

 

Here's how India is doing:



Here's India's vaccination rate:

 

I don't recall saying anything of the sort...

 

LOL actually all Biden can do is read from the teleprompter, take that away and he can not speak

 

Yeahright. If "numbers today (are) substantially worse than a year ago under Trump", it's because COVID is spreading, right? Right. And COVID spreads most among those who are unvaccinated and not wearing masks in social settings, right? Right.

So it's the DOPES who believe conspiracy theories about vaccines and masks who are spreading it while responsible people get the ****ing vaccine!

 

So you complain and criticize but you have no alternative to suggest? LOL!!!!!

 

Well, it doesn't seem to be the case with this latest mandate.... there was some bogus information floating around, but the USPS seems to be included here... wouldn't make any sense if they weren't..

SNIP
U.S. Postal Service workers are subject to a rule to be developed by the Labor Department mandating coronavirus vaccinations for workers and weekly testing for non-vaccinated employees at companies with over 100 workers, a senior Biden administration official told CNN and the Washington Post.
ENDSNIP

https://www.yahoo.com/news/postal-workers-exempt-vaccine-requirements-232126456.html

 

Like I said, I'm against mandates. But I think if someone (not me) is ordering mandates, then it shouldn't be a toothless mandate. Half-baked measures don't help and backfire. They generate anger and backlash and if they don't go far enough they don't change the situation; then they only get the negative sides for little gain.

So let's see what Biden's mandate includes.

Alternative to get tested once a week. This doesn't work to prevent the virus from being transmitted. Remember, at a time when Delta wasn't around and the virus was less infectious, the White House made everybody be tested daily and they still had a huge outbreak. Given that an infected person starts getting contagious days before symptoms or even without symptoms, and for a while testing is not yet positive, testing once a week will catch some cases but just a fraction of the cases and by the time someone tests positive the person has already passed the virus on to co-workers.

Also, what you want as alternative to vaccines is something inconvenient for the employee who refuses. Make the requirement a daily test. Or give no alternative testing option at all. The alternative testing once-a-week is effectively no vaccine mandate at all. People can simply opt for that and go get a test which the Biden administration is proposing to increase in terms of availability and to offer for free. So what's the inconvenience? Big deal. A small inconvenience, a little trip to a lab after work once a week which is minimally disruptive. Most committed anti-vaxxers will just pick this alternative and nothing will change (if they don't just claim an exemption; see below).

Vaccine exemptions. I know of a business where 25% of the employees declined the vaccine. Then the employer mandated the vaccine and didn't even offer a testing alternative. Everybody had to get it or be fired, except for medical or religious exemptions. Guess what? 80% of the decliners then evoked religious exemptions (which were immediately granted as the employer didn't want to mess with that) and the rate of vaccination went up by just 5% (I guess the 5% who accepted the vaccine just didn't think of applying for a religious exemption; they could all have still declined the vaccine that way if they had thought of it).

I think medical exemptions make sense but need to be screened by an independent physician panel, not just accepting some certificate from some PCP who was persuaded by an insisting anti-vaxxer; real medical contra-indications for these very safe mRNA vaccines are very rare and should be proved with extensive documentation before being granted.

And religious exemptions should come together with very stringent rules: 1) that the major authorities from someone's religion have issued statements against the vaccines on religious ground (currently no major religion has done so; actually the heads of the major religions, such as the Pope, have encouraged vaccines). 2) that if some fringe religion provides that, the employee should have to prove long-standing adherence to that religion, not merely joining yesterday to get an exemption today. 3) that the anti-vaxxer beliefs based on religion be consistent throughout the employee's life. For example, it's not acceptable to claim that religion prevents someone from being vaccinated against Covid if the person has accepted other vaccines such as Hep B, tetanus, etc., or if the person's children have had the usual recommended vaccines. This would tend to indicate that there isn't a true religious belief driving the refusal, but just, an opportunistic attempt to evade the mandate. The burden of proof to establish a true religious belief should be on the employee. Merely claiming something with no proof shouldn't be bases for granting an exemption.

By the way, I saw an interview with a religious rights lawyer exactly defending the ideas above. One would think that to get more business, the lawyer would defend people's rights to evoke a religious exemption in all circumstances. Not so. This lawyer said he is for religious rights when they are real, not when they are falsely claimed in opportunistic manner. I thought his integrity was commendable.

In the event of an employee who actually is granted an exemption, then make the person be tested daily and required to wear cumbersome PPE including high-performing masks and face shields at all times while in the business location including don't allow them to take them off to eat in the business cafeteria as they can then infect others in the cafeteria. Make them go outside to eat. You want an exemption? Daily testing, full PPE. Masks need to cover the nose too. Idiotic people wearing masks not covering the nose should then be deemed non-compliant with the mandate and summarily disciplined.

Again, like I said before, my position is not contradictory.

Analogy: I was against the war in Iraq. But once the war was decided (not by me) then I thought it should have been engaged in full-force. Half-baked on-the-cheap war like Rumsfeld wanted, backfired and became a protracted conflict that (among other causes) caused a quagmire and resulted in prolonged loss of life, limb, and tax-payer's money. You want to go to war? Go all the way. Remember how Bush senior prepped for months before the Kuwait campaign, and transported to the region thousands of tanks and several hundreds of thousands of troops before launching a swift and overwhelming offensive that won the war in merely days? That was war done right, unlike what Bush junior and Rumsfeld did.

So, yes, one can be against something, but also say if that something ultimately does happen thanks to the people in authority making it happen, then do it right.

Another analogy, same thing with travel "bans" that are merely travel restrictions.

If you implement a travel "ban" from a country infested with a dangerous variant, but you also post a page-long list of exemptions (like the "bans" we had in the beginning of the pandemic had all sorts of exemptions for diplomates, certain businessmen, flight crews, families of Americans and green-card holders, etc. - I read the decree and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the long list of exemptions, which allowed 40,000 people to come in from China with no quarantine) then it simply doesn't work. If you want a true ban, establish as few exemptions as possible and for those exemptions, required a 14-day supervised quarantine for anybody who is granted that exemption. A ban only works if it's a true ban and not just a restriction, like New Zealand for example and Uruguay at some point, which completely shut down all flights and all borders, no exemptions.

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Again, as proven by my thread on how to convince people (in which I included things like respect for freedom of choice) I'm for education and gentle persuasion as I firmly believe that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but if you do issue a mandate, then don't issue a toothless one which just has negative sides and doesn't accomplish much.

I'm predicting millions of bogus "religious exemptions" or people will simply just get tested once a week, and little will change. One thing will change: people will get even more outraged and rebellious.

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So I rate Biden's move, an entirely negative one. Stupid move.

My take: a) no mandates at all but money to be allocated to engage in a comprehensive campaign to counter misinformation and debunk conspiracy theories, on print press and radio and TV, visiting nurses going to people's homes to chat with them and offer the vaccine, using the approach recommended in my thread about how to convince people, etc. (recap of it below). Or b) if you do want to order a mandate which I oppose, then at least do it right, dammit!

Recap of recommended gentle persuasion:

• Emphasizing the trends of more people getting vaccinated.
• Focusing on everyone’s freedom of choice.
• Listening to concerns without judgment.
• Offering credible information.
• Correcting myths when necessary.
• Helping them fit vaccination into their “world view.”

 

I think I’m going to start marketing a Biden doll. You wind it up and it drools in its oatmeal.

 

Biden does not eat oatmeal, he eats Corn Pops

 

BULLSHIT! There is no such "evidence". The EVIDENCE is that in places where there is a high rate of vaccinations and mask-wearing, new cases are lower than in places of fewer vaccinations and anti-mask hysteria.

 

And thoughts on why Bug Out Biden exempted the USPS from the mandate?

 

And Bernie Sanders says that Castro is an American hero

OK if you say so kid

 

Where is that? What place has 80% vaccinations and is isolated from the rest of the infected world?

 

He didn’t
Postal workers will have a choice between getting the vaccine and getting tested for COVID-19 once a week, a Biden administration official clarified, subjecting those workers to the rules being imposed on business of 100 employees or more, as opposed to the rules for federal employees.

“USPS is not included in the executive order requiring vaccination of Federal employees. USPS has a separate statutory scheme and is traditionally independent of federal personnel actions like this,” a Biden administration official said.