Biden to unveil new "plan" to stop Delta variant on Thursday.

Well now they do. Times change. One needs to adapt to new rules, in order to live in society. But you're welcome to instead, go live in some survivalist self-sufficient bunker in the middle of nowhere with no contact whatsoever with the rest of humankind; there, you won't need to follow the rules.

 

And tomorrow continue with your insults or people making their own reasoned and rational decisions including a large group of our most highly educated. Tell me at what percent vaccination would you stop trying to insult an entire group with your self proclaimed intellectual superiority?

 

@Bluesguy

Like I said, don't rely on just ONE study, especially one with methodology flaws like being an online survey and not verifying the authenticity of the claims, as well as basing wild conclusions on a tiny minority of 0.05% of responders. And especially a non-peer reviewed study, unpublished. And then, oops, the study actually says the opposite of what you think it says (when you look at the absolute numbers, the PhD-hesitant people are in much smaller numbers, in the 26 hundreds, than the High School-only group, in the 19 thousands, like I demonstrated using the very data from your linked-to study.

Guess what? Here is a peer-reviewed one, published (International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health), and it says this:

"Vaccine refusal in the study group was higher among non-Hispanic Blacks, political conservatives, independent-leaning voters, suburban dwellers, people with less than a college education and non-married individuals."

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/ne...l-circles-and-vaccine-willingness/8310809002/

Here is the full text of the study:

https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/18/9448/htm

It does share limitations with the one you provided. It is also online and also based on self-report. So we don't know for sure if the conclusions are accurate, just like we don't know it, for your study. But it's interesting to observe that if you believe in yours, then you should believe in this one too, and it does say that people with less than a college education are more likely to be vaccine-hesitant.

Oh, do you want another one?

"with individuals who had lower education, income, or perceived threat of getting infected being more likely to report that they were not likely/definitely not going to get COVID-19 vaccine (i.e., vaccine hesitancy)."

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10900-020-00958-x

Also, published and peer-reviewed.

Oh, do you want another one?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20226-9.pdf?origin=ppub

See the tables of adjusted odds ratio, showing that people with no education have higher odds of both hesitating and plain refusing the vaccine.

Also published and peer-reviewed. And this one looked at way more solid data, no online survey.

3-1 is the score. Actually it is 4-0, because like I said, even the one that seemed to indicate a predominance of hesitancy among PhDs, actually did not - it was just a flawed and bias way to present the data (added-on by the journalistic source; the study itself does not have those blue bar graphs).

But in any case, if you advocated for taking at face value the researchers' point of view (as flawed as it may be), then it's 3-1 anyway, since I just showed you three studies that endorse that the people with lower education are more vaccine-hesitant.

Got to go now. Busy day for me, today.

 

Are you done with the personal attacks towards me?
I'm merely looking at the data, like you TRIED to do. It's just that I'm better equipped at looking at it, obviously.
And now I just provided 3 other studies showing more hesitancy among the lower educated. All three published and peer-reviewed. Now what?

 

In 2015, William Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for its discovery and applications.
It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines.[15] Ivermectin is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as an antiparasitic agent.[16] In 2018, it was the 420th most commonly prescribed medication in the United States, with more than one hundred thousand prescriptions.[17] The medication is also being researched as a way to treat or prevent tropical diseases including yellow fever and malaria.
Ivermectin - Wikipedia

As in "medicine" to treat humans.

 

Lol at you calling the one arguing against vaccines a survivalist.

 

LOL, good point! More like a Darwin Award recipient than a survivalist! No survival is necessary to earn the Darwin Award; much the opposite, LOL.

 

You are the one attack the intelligence of others so at what percent of vaccinated passes they "they aren't stupid" test?

By far blacks are the least vaccinated ethnic group is that because they are "dumber" than other groups?

Let's recall

 

Oh you are too rich..........................there are people of high education who have hesitated and there are people of low education who have. I'll choose to be less judgmental.

"Healthcare workers have been gradually coming around to COVID-19 vaccines, with one-third more people vaccinated since earlier in the year, but 27 percent of them are still unvaccinated, and 15 percent of the unvaccinated group are firmly opposed to immunizations. More healthcare employers may be pressured to mandate immunizations to stave off contagious Delta variant infections.

“The fact that 27 percent of staff in healthcare facilities are currently unvaccinated poses a significant risk to vulnerable patients, which will likely exacerbate outbreaks in healthcare settings,” according to the study from the Covid States Project, a collaborative effort by researchers from Northeastern, Harvard, Northwestern, and Rutgers.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/...orkers-still-havent-gotten-covid-19-vaccines/

And I hear New York City the hesitancy is even greater.

 

The least vaccinated doesn't mean the most hesitant. There is a question of access to care. But of course YOU wouldn't have thought of it... because you seem to only think of stuff, superficially... which is why you fell for that journalistic account's misrepresentation of the Carnegie Mellon data.

You don't need to remind me of what I said quoting me again, because I STAND BEHIND IT, AND WITH THE DATA TO PROVE IT. I will not take back anything that I said, because I was right the whole time. And you were wrong.

QUOTE="Bluesguy, post: 1072936768, member: 48853"]Oh you are too rich..........................there are people of high education who have hesitated and there are people of low education who have. I'll choose to be less judgmental.

"Healthcare workers have been gradually coming around to COVID-19 vaccines, with one-third more people vaccinated since earlier in the year, but 27 percent of them are still unvaccinated, and 15 percent of the unvaccinated group are firmly opposed to immunizations. More healthcare employers may be pressured to mandate immunizations to stave off contagious Delta variant infections.

“The fact that 27 percent of staff in healthcare facilities are currently unvaccinated poses a significant risk to vulnerable patients, which will likely exacerbate outbreaks in healthcare settings,” according to the study from the Covid States Project, a collaborative effort by researchers from Northeastern, Harvard, Northwestern, and Rutgers.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/...orkers-still-havent-gotten-covid-19-vaccines/

And I hear New York City the hesitancy is even greater.[/QUOTE]
Now you backpedal. You conveniently skip over the fact that you misinterpreted a study and though that there were MORE PhDs than HS grads who were hesitant... I said that MOST were in the lower ed category and you said I was wrong... Turns out that I was right... but you won't address this part, right? Of course not, or you'd have to acknowledge that I DEMOLISHED your argument.

By the way, you now pretend that all healthcare workers are equally educated. See, a janitor who works in a hospital is a healthcare worker.

In my hospital, 100% of the physicians, psychologists, physical therapists, social workers, physician assistants, and nurse practitioners are vaccinated (that is, the professional staff). ALL of them. I know, because I'm part of the executive committee and we discuss the data. But we do have a significant proportion of unvaccinated people... almost invariably, among the clerical staff and the least educated in the nursing department, such as the CNAs. Yep, in my hospital, there are healthcare workers who are hesitant... the least educated ones.

Since I demolished your argument, showing not only that YOUR own study said the opposite, but adding 3 more... then you now say "there are people of high education,,," etc. Yep. A minority.

Again, what you should have said, was, "oops, I stand corrected." But no, you'll back pedal and change your tune to pretend that you were right. Nope, you weren't, I was, but you can't get yourself to acknowledge it. You need to just personally attack me, and move the goal posts. Gotcha. And then I'm the one who is too rich... LOL.

Sorry for having humiliated you.

You're not a worthy debate opponent. Which is why now I'm choosing to stop reading you. I only spend time with people who deserve my attention. Have a nice and long life. Farewell forever.

 

ROFL yea healthcare workers don't have access to vaccinations..........................

I go with the RESEARCHERS as I quoted. You seem bent on claiming those who have not been vaccinated are simply the dumb ones, feel free to make such claim keeping in mind which groups have such low rates as I have shown. Your anecdotal story does not refute the facts, and read the link which states "professionals" have a higher rate the study was not limited it was ALL healthcare workers. As I said I will be less judgmental and quite frankly since you cannot debate in a civil manner you're not a worthy opponent and probably will not last very long around here.

 

Get it. Or not. I’m not too concerned anymore. If you get it you probably have a better chance of living. Your family would probably be happy about that, unless they don’t like you.

If you don’t get it, well, the planet is WAY overpopulated, so I guess COVID deaths help in that regard.

I think it is a personal decision, and the government shouldn’t be able to dictate what you inject into your body.

however, if you do get COVID because you chose not to get the vaccine, do everyone a favor and stay out of the ICU. You shouldn’t let your choices make it more difficult for others suffering from other causes not caused by a bad decision from getting help.

 

Here is the response from most of the country:

 

Doctors gave an oath on this issue sorry bud.

 

I know the doctors did. But if someone who did not get the vaccine catches covid, the decent thing to do would be for them to stay out of the hospital. Of course, If they show up they should be treated.

 

It's not realistic to suppose that someone who catches a moderate to severe case of Covid and worsens, with dropping oxygenation, gasping for air, will simply say "oh well, I wasn't vaccinated, so I guess I'll just stay out of the hospital and will not seek to improve my chances of survival by being started on oxygen. Who cares about this severe shortness of breath and this desperation for air I'm feeling right now?"

And then, of course, once the patient gets to the ER, it's a violation of federal law (called EMTALA) to deny care.

So, no, it is not going to happen.

You are right that the behavior is disgraceful, but unfortunately there is no easy fix, and these people will continue to clog and overwhelm the hospitals.

 

that was exactly my point. I know as soon as they catch it they are going to rush to the emergency room to get treated. It would be nice if they did the world a favor and just get vaccinated, so that their is plenty of room for those with non-COVID related illnesses that will need an ICU bed.

 

Agreed. Recently a man with a heart condition died after the family tried no fewer than 43 hospitals and couldn't find an ICU bed for him because they were all full of Covid-19 patients. Given that more than 90% of those are likely to be unvaccinated, this man would likely have survived if these people had accepted the vaccine and were not clogging the ICUs.

 

I do think 'lower education' needs to be quantified. I had some college experience, unfortunately I didn't get all the way for my diploma for business administration. I think people can be educated and aware on issues, but not necessarily know everything. As an example, again, my biggest concern was/is that I'm not a biologist. So essentially, I have to trust the people who are. IE: Blind faith. To me, no amount of education is going to overcome that.

It's just a matter of, do I want to place this faith on them? Well, it seems like the 'survival' rate with or without is almost the same(I know you've pointed out the myraid of conditions that comes with the full virus.) So, there's no reason not to take the vaccine if I have a "doesn't matter" mindset and that it's all the same anyway.

 

Yes, of course there are many exceptions; there are those who are not highly educated but are very intelligent and well-informed, and those who are highly educated and are not that bright or not that open-minded. But stats look at populations, not at individuals, and the cases above are the exceptions rather than the rule. As a matter of a population, yes, it is pretty clear that vaccine hesitancy is more prevalent among the lower educated individuals. Given that generally (with the exceptions above-noted, and you must be one of them) there is significant correlation between ability to achieve higher degrees of education and individual intelligence, it is not far-fetched to say that individuals of lower intelligence tend to be more vaccine-hesitant. This is why, when the other user was berating me and personally attacking me for my position on this, I said, I stand behind what I said, and I don't mind calling the facts what they are, dully substantiated by the scientific studies I've mentioned and linked to.

Yes, mere survival isn't everything regarding the SARS-CoV-2, which has a propensity to damage several organs. Sure, people will survive at a rate close to 99% but a significant percentage of these will be maimed for life, and will have life expectancy, productivity, and quality of life curtailed by the consequences of having had the virus; and this, unfortunately, also hits the young and healthy, as demonstrated by studies. So the idea that the young and healthy die even less frequently of Covid-19 therefore taking the vaccines for them is not justified in terms of balance of risks and benefits, is entirely flawed. It is only true if you only look at death rates... but is blatantly untrue if you look at organ damage, as evidenced by the Ohio State University study showing 30% of healthy college athletes showing evidence of heart damage after having survived mild and even asymptomatic cases of Covid-19.

And it is false that survival rate is the same. It is been abundantly clear that the unvaccinated have a 10 to 11 times bigger odds of dying of Covid-19 than the vaccinated. When you add to this, the numerous sequelae the virus can leave behind in many survivors, and you look at the very tiny percentages of troubles caused by the vaccines themselves, it's really a no-brainer to prefer the vaccine rather than to take a chance with the natural infection by the full virus.

 

same for those that catch HIV when they weren't told by there partner.

 

This sums it up: