Republican here confused about some Republican "mainstream" beliefs

The left is gonna jump at this thread like white on rice but all your posts to me will be ignored. This is intended for other REPUBLICANS. I already know the lefty stance on these things and I want these answers from REPUBLICANS. So if you are on the left, you can kindly leave (maybe go make a Jan 6th thread or go protest letting babies living or whatever it is you peeps do on your free time).

OK now to my questions.

1) How come the same party that doesn't want floods of illegals coming in want floods of poor babies coming in? This strains the system just as much as illegals. Why complain about abortions, especially when many of them are done by the left. (do you really want more of them running around?)

2) How come the party that doesn't want floods of illegals pouring into the country seems to also want to make getting contraception difficult? Let me get this straight, you don't want abortions but you want to take away something that prevents many abortions? call me baffled!

3) AR-15s
I'm not anti-gun. I'm pro-gun as a matter of fact but something keeps running through my head. If pretty much ALL mass shootings are done with the SAME gun, don't you think thats worth looking into? I'm guessing that its because you know the left won't stop there and will push for restrictions on all guns? That's fair enough. Lets pretend that wasn't a factor and it was all just about that ONE gun model, would you be open to some restrictions on it?

4) Mixing religion with government. How do you expect to achieve this in a melting pot country with Christians, Jews, Atheists, Santanists, Scientologists and many others? Why do you always say "its time to return to our Judeo-Christian values"? I happen to be Christian but so what. I don't think that religion should be part of a government. That would only work if we were ALL the SAME religion, and we aren't. Stop thrusting God into everything.
When judgement day comes, do you think God is going to be happy about being used as a political weapon? I don't know God personally but I'm pretty sure God would not like this.

The above are some points I have difficulties defending my party on because although what I like about the Republican side is they have more LOGIC based policies, as you can see from the above, not all of this is logical.

I also encourage nobody to reply to any lefty posts in this thread (don't act like you don't know who they are!) . It would be best to pretend they aren't there. I want the answers from REPUBLICANS only. Please read and advise

Thanks

P.S. sorry if some of my views annoy you, but to me, that is the beauty of the Republican party. We aren't forced into certain points of views and canceled for thinking differently than other people. I am just a little baffled about the contradictory points I mentioned. Thank you

 

Sounds like you need to educate yourself. Life is full of contradiction.

 

While I am personally pro-abortion, I think that it is obvious that the anti-abortion folks hold that position because in their minds they believe that life begins prior to birth. With that being their mindset, they see abortion as murder.

When you look at it through their prism that it is murder, to draw an analogy to illegals crossing a border does not make a lick of sense. They are simply two entirely different concepts that do not have any significant overlap in logic. To conclude that in order to support stopping illegal immigration, one must also support killing babies is not a logical train of thought.

Seems to also want to make getting contraception difficult? What does this mean? I have heard of the extremely rare religious nut that may oppose contraception, but to paint the entire party with the notion that they want to make getting contraception difficult does not seem to me to be grounded in reality.

If by making it difficult you mean they do not support giving it out in schools or it being taxpayer-funded, I think that is perhaps a slightly different topic then saying they want to make it difficult to obtain. I personally do not know even one person that opposes the availability of contraception. I do know some though that oppose taxpayer funded contraception or perhaps making a catholic insurer and the like pay for contraceptives when it goes against their beliefs. I think at that point the opposition would be on the grounds of religious freedom, which again, does not have a logical connection to the notion of wanting to stop illegal immigration.

"Pretty much ALL mass shootings"?... That claim is simply not even remotely close to being true. You can however, legitimately say that an outsized percentage of mass shootings involve AR-15s.

This reminds me of the oft-repeated notion that people in red cars get an outsized percentage of speeding tickets. Most people see this supposed tidbit of information and conclude that the color red catches the eye of the police more thus they ticket more red cars. The reality of the situation though would be that such a disparity would be far more likely to be due to people that like to speed more often choosing the color red when buying a car. When it comes to a person that likes to speed, they will do so regardless of the color of their car.

This is related to the AR-15 prevalence in mass shootings in that not having an AR-15 is NOT going to stop a person from being a mass shooter. That same mass shooter is going to plan their mass shooting whether they have an AR-15 or not. Therefore, putting restrictions on an AR-15 will do nothing to lower the number of mass shootings. You could loosely argue that their mass shootings may be a little less effective than with a traditional rifle due to slightly larger magazine capacity, but even that argument has severe limitations.

What benefit are you saying would result from putting restrictions on the AR-15? If your argument is that it would lower the number of mass shootings, I do not think that makes any sense.

 

@FAW

regarding point #1, I was presenting it in terms of overpopulation, but in the context you put it in, I agree, not the best analogy. Thanks for sharing your opinion and pointing out my flawed analogy.

regarding point #2, what do you think costs more money to the tax payer, condoms in public rest rooms or unplanned babies?

regarding point #3, where does your comparison ends? A person could be a "Mass shooter" with a nail gun from home depot if they really wanted to, but since the majority of the killings happens with this same gun it should be looked into IMO

 

I am a person that is Fiscally Conservative and Socially quite liberal, so I am perhaps not the best person to fully address some of these mindsets.

-I personally have no problem with condoms in restrooms or sex education in schools etc. I imagine though that a person that opposes these things is probably not doing so based on the actual cost. I would guess that their belief is that they do not want a school teaching their relaxed sexual attitudes to their children. While I oppose the notion of pushing abstinence, I DO think that parents should have the right to make that decision for themselves. Do I think that unplanned babies cost more than condoms? Absolutely. I am not sure however that cost is the real debate.

-What do you think will happen if you put restrictions on the AR-15? Are you thinking this will cut down on the number of mass shootings? I do not see the logic in that position. If there were a new gun that had a skull and cross bone as its logo that all of a sudden became the most common choice for a mass shooter, do you think that banning the skull and cross bone logo would somehow lower the number of mass shootings? Or would those same mass shooters simply choose another gun for their upcoming rampage?

 

I don't think it would cut down on the number of shootings, but i think it would cut down on the number of casualties. I'm also a socially liberal fiscal conservative. Nice to see there are others out there. Clearly we disagree on the gun thing, so what? Its a good thing. thats how progress happens

 

There is an argument that a lower magazine capacity might possibly make them less effective. I am not so sure there have been that many of these shootings where that would come into play though. Yes, if a person were caught switching a magazine they would be vulnerable for a few seconds, but I am not sure of which shooting that would have made a difference. For example, in the recent shooting in Uvalde, it is darned near impossible to conclude that the shooter would have been hindered had he been required to switch 7 magazines instead of 5. Truth of the matter is that he pretty much had free reign. In most mass shootings, there are not people close enough after emptying a magazine to be able to jump on the shooter during those few seconds of a magazine change. Theoretically it could make a difference, but I am not so sure it would accomplish much of anything.

I am far from being a gun nut, and if I truly thought it would make a substantive difference I may very well support regulation. I am just not so sure that I see a significant value in doing so.

 

I am against illegals coming into this country; I'm not for killing them. Thus, this comparison is absurd.

What poll are you referencing that indicates that Republicans by and large are against birth control?

From 1982 to 2022, handguns are actually the gun type most used in mass shootings.

Last I checked, and I could be wrong on this, an AR-15 is not a handgun.

This making of a boogeyman out of the AR-15 is a mainstream talking point of leftism, and it does not fall in line with reality.

This is somewhat like saying that we should not make laws based off our moral convictions. It's a meaningless statement. While I don't believe that this country should be a full-fledged theocracy, it was founded by Christians, and it was our Christian heritage that defined the framework of our national charter. Before 1962, with the landmark ruling of Engel v. Vitale, prayer was allowed in school. In fact, there were established churches in the early American republic, which was perfectly within the contours of the Constitution. It was this Christian culture of thought that helped define America. Notice that as we moved away from religion, especially with the 1962 ruling, the culture of our country has really degraded as it has left a vacuum in which the religion of leftism, with its sacred cows and intersectional ballyhoo, has largely filled? Have you noticed that? Perhaps we should be gravitating to our Christian religious roots, not towards the bitter fruit of leftism, which is a form of religion, where man can become woman and vice versa. Since the genesis of government, there has always been a religious aspect in some form or another. It's just a matter of which religion by which you want it to be defined.

 

1) You are assuming these babies are poor. Maybe but how many folks start out poor who end up wealthy? How do you know these babies will grow up to be lefties? How many children grow up and exactly mirror their parents?

I am not a republican. I am an independent.

1) It comes down to the argument over the sanctity of life. Some believe life begins at conception so abortion is murder. Think about that. You are saying the answer to poverty is killing the poor. Poor people do not have the right to live? Democrats are always complaining about wealthy people so why do they want them to reproduce?

2) Not true. No one wants contraceptives to be hard to get. This is a left wing talking point.

3) You really can't pretend something isn't a factor when it is. Yes, you give the left an inch and they take a mile.

4) Separation of church and state is a belief held by Republicans believe it or not. Religion should be kept out of government. You may be confusing what people are saying about society with what they want from government.

Your issues seem to come down to social issues. I do not want the government trying to socially engineer society. That is not their role. The left thinks the opposite. They want the government to force their beliefs on the people because the left seems to think they know better than others. How arrogant.

Abortion? It is a social issue and not to be decided by the government. People need to take personal responsibility for their actions.

Guns? Again, what is wrong with looking into mental health issues? The folks doing the mass shootings are clearly mentally disturbed.

 

First, I'm answering as a Constitutionalist. In our Constitutional Liberal Democracy we mutually secure each other's rights, including the right to live. The problem with ILLEGAL immigrants is not that they are immigrants and it certainly isn't that they are poor. We support the poor because that's who we are, and we expect the able bodied to quickly join the ranks of those that support our social networks by putting in more than they take out.

"2) How come the party that doesn't want floods of illegals pouring into the country seems to also want to make getting contraception difficult? Let me get this straight, you don't want abortions but you want to take away something that prevents many abortions? call me baffled!"

Ridiculous. Many of us support over the counter birth control. Most of the world has over the counter birth control, here in the US it's just another Big Pharma/Big Medicine racket, one of the many Guilds, Crony Corporatists and Coordinating Cartels that rent seek like common thieves.

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/07/...er-birth-control-has-taken-so-long-in-the-us/

"3) AR-15sI'm not anti-gun. I'm pro-gun as a matter of fact but something keeps running through my head. If pretty much ALL mass shootings are done with the SAME gun, don't you think thats worth looking into? I'm guessing that its because you know the left won't stop there and will push for restrictions on all guns? That's fair enough. Lets pretend that wasn't a factor and it was all just about that ONE gun model, would you be open to some restrictions on it?"

No. There is no valid reason for a law abiding citizen to be prevented from owning this light caliber gun. Most of the gun murders are committed by violent illegally armed felons operating openly in blue cities. The Lying fake news media does not whip these stories but they are far more numerous. You want to disarm someone, get to work on those folks.

"4) Mixing religion with government. How do you expect to achieve this in a melting pot country with Christians, Jews, Atheists, Santanists, Scientologists and many others? Why do you always say "its time to return to our Judeo-Christian values"? I happen to be Christian but so what. I don't think that religion should be part of a government. That would only work if we were ALL the SAME religion, and we aren't. Stop thrusting God into everything. When judgement day comes, do you think God is going to be happy about being used as a political weapon? I don't know God personally but I'm pretty sure God would not like this."

We are free to hold practice and speak our religious views, just like the Green Neo Pagans are, and neither them or us should use the force of law to impose our views on anyone else.

"The above are some points I have difficulties defending my party on because although what I like about the Republican side is they have more LOGIC based policies, as you can see from the above, not all of this is logical. I also encourage nobody to reply to any lefty posts in this thread (don't act like you don't know who they are!) . It would be best to pretend they aren't there. I want the answers from REPUBLICANS only. Please read and advise.Thanks. P.S. sorry if some of my views annoy you, but to me, that is the beauty of the Republican party. We aren't forced into certain points of views and canceled for thinking differently than other people. I am just a little baffled about the contradictory points I mentioned. Thank you."

Hopefully my answers do not annoy you, I've spent a lifetime in conservative circles and your view of conservatism strikes me as disinformation from leftwing sources. Here is perhaps a better source to understand the fundamental tension between the democrat and the republican approach to our constitutional democracy that has been in tension since our colonial days.

​

This is a pretty fast read, but, I think it will help clarify some things for you. I downloaded it from Amazon to read on my smart phone for about $7.

 

1. Murder is murder. We are against murder, even if someone else rationalizes it.

2. I think you are talking about the far right here. Most Republicans are not against contraception.

3. I don't own guns. I don't like guns. I used to be very much anti-guns and even donated to the cause. A couple of decades ago I wouldn't have cared if the left went door to door and took everyone's guns away. After 9/11 I totally changed as I understood what the founders wanted with 2A. Nobody is going to try taking over an armed country. But, that aside, my biggest beef is the fact of the left's very stupid philosophy of letting dangerous people run around loose and then try to keep guns out of their hands. Well, number one, if people are so dangerous that they shouldn't have guns then they shouldn't be running around loose either. And, it's stupid to think that criminals are going to obey the law if they aren't supposed to have guns. They are going to get guns anyway, with the most common way being stealing them. So, until the left get their heads out of their asses and realize that bad guys need to be locked up, then I am not for any gun control legislation until eventually guns are banned and confiscated. We need people control legislation if we are serious about stopping the problem. If we lock bad people up it wouldn't make much difference how many people had AR's. And, yes, as we are already seeing right now, gun control legislation leads to more and more and more because these things won't stop so we will always need more gun control legislation. The fact is, there are urban areas and most of the land of the country is rural, where guns are just a way of life. Having strict gun control laws to help the urban areas that would automatically apply everywhere is unfair to all of the rural areas where life is totally different.

4. I think many on the right believe that the left attack Christians and want to take God out of our lives while the left also believe in tolerating every other religion. For example, we aren't allowed to pray in schools, have Christmas programs, and we can't say Merry Christmas at Christmas and yet we bend over backwards to allow Muslims to pray to Mecca five times per day while at work. It's the double standard that is most frustrating. The left bend over backwards for every other religion but Christianity and want to take Christianity away from Christians while tolerating every other religion. They hate Americans for believing in God but tolerate the Gods of every other religion.

 

Actually the AR is not the most common gun in mass shootings. Pistols are by far.

 

You realize you are falling for liberal lies right? You honestly believe this crap? Where did you here the AR-15 is the most common gun in mass shootings?

 

I thank all who replied to the original post. Your rebuttals are solid, factual, and crystal clear to anyone with a critical and objective viewpoint. Kudos, all.

 

and slavery was part of that christian culture.

Also, Salem witch hunts.

 

Two points of note, here, for others from center to left, on the political spectrum. First, that this is the perfect example of the way today's Republicans, seek out "fair & unbiased" facts, analysis, & opinion: Darthcervantes has questions about Democrats so he, after telling Dems that he will ignore their input, looks to others here on the Right, in such a blatantly partisan move, it is sure to bring out many of the most extremist of that element, who have stated views such as that Progressives hate America and so want to destroy the country, and other attacks that are only more grievously personal, prejudicial, paranoid, propagandistic, and hypocritically poppycock poop. This is why one should not be surprised at the cluelessness, of a member who relies on this type of "sourcing" of information. It is by their Right Wing Media industry that the Republican in name, or in practice, is told that all mainstream media is liberal and so, de facto, "fake news."

The second takeaway I offer is a demonstration of how bereft of positivity, or even ideas-- if our OP writer here, is any guage to go by-- is the modern GOP. Regard the thread's title, saying that Darth needs clarification on REPUBLICAN "mainstream" BELIEFS. It takes a Republican, not to notice that all these beliefs-- which the OP's author apparently considers something, about which uniformity of perspective, on his team, is a must-- have to do with their beliefs about Democrats.

Therefore, it is a fair assessment to consider the central ideas in that, now mentally dissipated, Party to revolve around the evil of Democrats, Progressives, and Liberals, also known as (in the view I have read from a number of MAGA's most vociferous advocates, on PF), "Socialists."

Them's the facts.

 

i was respecting darth's request to stay out of this thread, but these guys are hilarious.

 

i was respecting darth's request to stay out of this thread, but these guys are hilarious.

 

Thanks for the tip-- I'll have to go back & read some of the product, of this think tank. I just usually find such blatantly false narratives-- generally projections, which immediately try to demonize their political (and social and cultural too, apparently) opponents-- to be too galling to stomach, without venting my spleen (to kind of mix metaphors). But I'm trying to limit how much good time I throw after the bad time, spent in sincere debate with those people who are hostile towards the very concept, of modifying their own view.

 

i do enjoy hearing their warped view of what we all must certainly believe.

 

I'm not republican but some here call me that. So guess I'll take a crack. Note: I'm just throwing things out, not giving much thought as most of it is kinda basic.

I want contraception so that question doesn't really apply to me so I'll skip it.

As for illegals vs "poor babies".... 1: Less illegals would make up for being able to take care of those "poor babies". 2: Its also about legality. Many that come here illegally have proven that they do not care for American values and laws by ignoring those laws and values. Additionally many people come here legally....is it fair that illegals get to cut the line?

The AR15 is not the most used gun in mass shootings. That is a lie propagated by leftists. The most used gun is a hand gun. Democrats are trying to ban such guns even though its the least used gun in both mass shootings AND regular crime. Once they are banned, and mass shootings/gun crime will not be reduced, allowing Dems to further restrict even more guns under the same pretense. For Dems banning all guns is the end result...but they know that it must be done with a "war" of attrition. Little bit, by little bit. Sorry, but I can't pretend that it isn't a factor.

Something that doesn't apply to me as I do not follow any religion. I too prefer facts and logic when it comes to what our government does.

I know you only wanted replies from Republicans, but I felt that I do have a somewhat "republican" stance on at least some of your questions.

 

uh huh...sure...





What makes memes funny is that there is usually some truth to them. Yours sucked as there is no truth in it.

(sorry Darth, won't reply to a lefty again in your thread, just couldn't help in this case)

 

Sorry but Condoms have a huge failure rate and are one of the main causes of unwanted pregnancy and therefore abortion. Plus it leaves contraception to the males - not good

Better to improve access to LARCs