Why is socialism becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

Because people have been sold a bill of goods that will never materialize.

 

The irony here is inflation is almost fully the cause of government, essentially socialism, and not capitalism.

 

Probably shouldn't have taken out that loan... problem solved.

 

Quite a line. And very true. Real communist Marxism has never been tried. Most likely because it's completely utopian.

I've always thought the closest example of a communist society is Star Trek, in which there is no money, and people work for a few privileges, but not for money. And the main incentive is the work itself... Captain Kirk doesn't make more money than Lieutenant Uhura. In fact, they don't get ANY money. Kirk gets to be Captain because he LIKES being Captain. And because he's good at it. In exchange he gets to do the job he likes, he gets bigger sleeping quarters than Uhura, and maybe a few extra privileges with the replicator.

In Marxist theory, farmers and industrial workers get more privileges than those who do bureaucratic work. Thus the dictatorship of the proletariat. Which was not really a "dictatorship", but was supposed to be some sort of "direct democracy". But people don't work for money. They work because they LIKE what they do. The worst you can say about it is that it's clearly utopian. The problem is when you start looking at HOW to achieve that. The transition from Capitalism to Communism is what Lenin, Stalin, Mao,... and others, struggled with. Because it would require violence, and it would require a "temporary" dictatorship during the transition. But all of them got stuck there for one obvious reason: Marxism is utopian. And, in the end, there is no such thing as "I want to be dictator for a day" (to paraphrase a known dictator wannabe). Once you're a dictator, you never let go.

However, Marxism is only ONE type of socialism: the most extremist kind. And it wasn't even the first (earlier versions had other names). Or even the most popular. There are several forms of Democratic Socialism that propose something completely different.

 

I'm sure all those minimum wage laws, increased government taxation at all levels, and government regulation and labor laws have nothing to do with it?

 

Holy entitled.

And I'm GenX... you know, the generation that wasn't a bunch of whiners.

 

Millenials and GenZ have convinced themselves the world is now harder.

 

And has other strange things to write. See below.

Well, if you want to make that distinction, Marx tried Marxism. By your comments, you mean to critique Capitalism. But after the critique Marx's position is that Communism will win out and work and that capitalism will not.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marxism.asp

 

You could have given one to make your point. You didn't. Why?

 

Who says that is happening?
Besides RW fake news, I assume.

 

Mostly because they've been brainwashed that "socialism" is a land go happiness, and goodness where the government takes care of all you needs and all you have to do is keep voting for them (and keeping your mouth shut)

 

Bullshit, every generation has more than its share of whiners, yours ain’t no different.

 

If it gets forgiven and I can save some money then I’m content with that.

 

What's wrong with USA education system? Other than it's underfunded, in general.
USA test scores, especially math and science have been stable for decades. We just haven't improved like other countries.

Again, likely due to underfunding.

...
As of 2023, the top ten countries based on education rankings are:

United States 1
United Kingdom 2
Germany 3
Canada 4
France 5
Switzerland 6
Japan 7
Australia 8
Sweden 9
Netherlands 10

Countries with the Best Educational Systems - 2021 Best Countries Report*

Ironically, despite the United States having the best-surveyed education system on the globe, U.S students consistently score lower in math and science than students from many other countries. According to a Business Insider report in 2018, the U.S. ranked 38th in math scores and 24th in science. Discussions about why the United States' education rankings have fallen by international standards over the past three decades frequently point out that government spending on education has failed to keep up with inflation.

It's also worthwhile to note that while the Best Countries study is certainly respectable, other studies use different methodologies or emphasize different criteria, which often leads to different results. For example, the Global Citizens for Human Rights' annual study measures ten levels of education from early childhood enrollment rates to adult literacy. Its final 2020 rankings look a bit different:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

...
Key Takeaways

• The U.S. placed 11th out of 79 countries in science when testing was last administered in 2018.
• The top five math-scoring countries in 2018 were all in Asia.
• U.S. students' math scores have remained steady since 2003. Their science scores have been about the same since 2006.
• The IMD World Competitiveness Center reports that the U.S. ranked 10th in its 2020 Competitiveness Report after ranking first in 2018.

Comparing Test Scores
The Program for International Student Assessment is administered by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and it tests 15-year-old students around the world. The U.S. placed 11th out of 79 countries in science when the test was last administered in 2018. It did much worse in math, ranking 30th.1

The U.S. scored 478 in math, below the OECD average of 489. That's well below the scores of the top five, all of which were in Asia:

• Singapore: 569
• Macao: 555
• Hong Kong: 551
• Taiwan: 531
• Japan: 527

China was not included in this ranking because only four provinces participated.2

The United States scored 502 in science, above the OECD average of 489. The top five highest scorers in science were:

• Singapore: 551
• Macao: 544
• Estonia: 530
• Japan: 529
• Finland: 522

It's clear when analyzing the U.S. results that the scores have been stable over time. They're not declining but there aren't any signs of improvement, either. There's been no detectable change in U.S. students' math scores since 2003 or in science scores since 2006.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/the-u-s-is-losing-its-competitive-advantage-3306225

 

In reference to the 70% who lives paycheck to paycheck, as they get older, they’ll become more dependent on government.

 

Millenials, which I'm confident you fall into, are by far the worst.

 

I was thinking the same thing.
Some dude and 9 other people means the country is turning socialist? Whatever that even means.

 

At some point, you're going to mature and realize nothing in life is free. Even if it does get forgiven, you're going to pay for it one way or another... and I'm sure when the hens come home to rost you'll be crying about how tough your generation has it, too entitled and self serving to realize you're doing it to yourself.

 

OMG, no one ever speaks or marxism, except when MAGA heads try and make some off topic response.

 

Gonna need to see some sources on that because there’s some boomers and old, decrepit people here that are just as awful.

 

Kids become what the parents teach them.
Parents are always responsible for what their kids become. For the most part.

 

Why is socialism becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

Whenever I read an opening statement like this, "I am genuinely interested to hear your takes on this, regardless of if you are a Righty, Lefty or Centrist."; I can be sure that it's going to be a "pile on" by one side or the other. Then I see in the title "Why is socialism" and I know immediately that it's going to be a right wing circle jerk about "those lefty's ruining everything for everyone" and that roasts every "lefty" that dares to respond. After reading through this the thread ... I haven't been disappointed.

Even in the OP you know how disingenuous it's going to be when you read:

• socialism that exercises indirect control through government mandates and regulations (essentially fascism
• has become fashionable in some rather lofty circles on the Left
• Obviously, socialism remains widely unpopular on the Right
• was more widely rejected by Americans in the past
• with the rise of the welfare state beginning in the 1930s and its massive expansion during the 1960s
• beginning in the 1960s that the socialist-communist New Left began asserting itself in LW politics and the Democratic Party
• the "progressives" (socialists) who have become even more powerful over the past two decades and are now dictating the Democratic Party's increasingly Far Left agenda.
• increasing popularity of socialism in America as the natural and logical product of the evolutionary process of the Left in this country

And closes with another pledge of false neutrality: "as I mentioned earlier I am genuinely interested in hearing what others think."

I'll call bullshit on that one ... Mr. Bond.

But I'll play ... here goes.

At the macro level it's ... MY ... OPINION ... that true socialism, communism even fascism have never existed as a form of government. We certainly have had Autocratic Oligarchic Totalitarian governments that called themselves socialism, communism or fascism. I'm not sure I've ever really understood fascism because to me it was, at its inception, an Autocratic Oligarchic Totalitarian tyranny spun in patriotic cotton candy laced with arsenic. But we've never had a truly government of Socialism or Communism, except for, maybe, Vietnam. So! That just about takes care of “Macro”.

BUT! To say that socialism "was more widely rejected by Americans in the past", if you mean prior to the Great Depression and FDR, then I say that's as disingenuous as this thread. Because, prior to the Great Depression Americans generally had no say in the matter of our economic system. OUR economic system was dictated by the rich and powerful and we all played by their rules and terms; I'm not even sure you could call it capitalism then. Look it up, I don't think "capitalism" became colloquial until the ?teens?, ?20's?, ?30's?, certainly not before the turn of the last century and Teddy's trust busting.

There was no rise of "the welfare state" in the 30's. Faced with unprecedented poverty and misery FDR, for the first time, used government funds to INVEST in America. He used those funds to build the infrastructure that "Made America Great", roads, power infrastructure, dams to power it, national parks, War 2. And he took steps to ensure that Americans would never again be subject to the whims of Wall Street/capitalism. It did "Make U.S. Great" and a world power. Where we ****ed up is not continuing to invest in U.S. and letting the rich few convince us that it's wrong to expect our government to serve U.S every day Americans, but it's OK to cater to the rich.

What has become "fashionable" and necessary "beginning in the 1960's"on the "left" is a resistance to tax free right wing think tanks that have funded research that, "surprisingly" supports their notion that fewer and fewer wealthy people should become ever more wealthy while they tinkle down on the rest of us. Nixon paved the way for unlimited debt growth when he went off the gold standard and Reagan made good on it by taking debt growth exponential, which tRaitor tRump copied in spades with his voodoo economics 2.0., cutting taxes "BIGGLY" for the rich in perpetuity and gave us tinkle down's a "small-ly" break for a few years; "a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down".

Regan went on to deregulate everything he could and cut FDR's social safety net that had protected U.S. from Wall Street for fifty years. Which ended up in destroying America as the worlds manufacturer, shipping our jobs and knowledge base, even the machines that had "Made U.S. Great" to butt **** Asia. Thety then started shipping cheap ass crap back, that was supposed to replace the quality goods AmeriCAN's had been making. Which was, in a way, good because that's all we could afford, we were so impoverished by Reagan's programs.

NO American want's unbridled socialism, we are all ... all in ... on capitalism. But we're *******n tired of unbridled capitalism with no social safety net to protect U.S. It' s not "socialism" or "communism" especially not "fascism" to want good paying, union protected jobs with benefits, and government programs to protect us when Wall Street ****s up. It's not socialism to expect the richest people on the planet to pay their fair share, in taxes, back into the system that made them wealthy in the first place.

What that AbsaByGodLutely IS, is the kind of Capitalism that "Made America Great" in the first place.


I really wanted to have a serious discussion it's a serious premise, but with a disingenuous motive. And I'm sure the "rightys" will roast this like Christmas chestnuts. I don't care. Don't expect me to respond, I think I'll cut n paste this into a thread of my own.

 

We’re not asking for every ****ing thing to be free, we’re just happy if our loans are forgiven so we can have one less thing to worry about in the middle of an economic crisis, a bad housing market, a very uninspiring election, a warming planet, and a potential World War 3.

So forgive us if we’re jumping for joy when something even slightly improves our lives.

 

Because I said "no commie socialism".

Right.