The Vatican says surrogacy and gender theory are 'grave threats' to human dignity

The surrogacy is a surprise, but the rest is what the Vatican of 15+ yrs ago would have said, but it seems their views have drifted on some cultural / religious issues like gay marriage.

The Vatican says surrogacy and gender theory are 'grave threats' to human dignity
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/08/1243...urrogacy-gender-theory-grave-threats-abortion
The Vatican has released a new document on human dignity in which it says surrogacy, gender theory and abortion are among the "grave threats" to the human condition.

The document, called "Infinite Dignity" says the concept itself originates from the love of the creator "who has imprinted the indelible features of his image on every person."

It details what the Vatican sees as grave violations of dignity. Poverty, war and the abuse of migrants lead that list.

But it says the notion can be misused to justify what it calls an "arbitrary proliferation of new rights."

 

I think the massive amount of child rapes perpetrated by adherents and members of his church under his watch are more of a grave threats to the human condition than surrogacy is.

Any religion that doesn’t recognize that doesn’t need to be given even the slightest consideration as to what they feel — about anything.

 

Agreed. They'll never look in the mirror when it comes to all the sexual stuff they speak about.

 

Not to mention turning women into baby factories by banning contraception, and demonising gay people.

 

I would say that the church is taking a stand more on the side of "Gods Will" than on the side of "mans will." First of all you have to believe in God and the teachings of the Bible to agree with my previous statement. When God made Adam and Eve and banished them from Eden he told them to go forth and multiply. That was his will for mankind. God also gave us "Free Will" in which we could choose between right and wrong. When we choose not to have children, even though we can, then we are doing our will. We are saying we know what is best for us.

 

If Adam and Eve were the only humans on earth, the "be fruitful and multiply" was good advice. Now we have done our job, and there are 8 billion people and running out of resources, to maybe the advice is not as timely as it was back in the days of Adam and Eve.

Modern birth control methods were not known in Biblical times and therefore the Bible is silent about it.

 

Well then if we have free will we don't have to pay attention to the self-elected officials of some church or another. If we want contraception we can choose to have it, and they shouldn't use moral blackmail to interfere with that choice.

 

Yes the church has drifted way too far into political issues. Its position is that marriage is for the conception and raising of offspring and that isn't possible without both genders. Nevertheless it should ban it for its congregation and stay out of the politics of others. It can't save the world.

 

You do have Free will to choose to belong to a church or not. Your free to choose whatever form of birth control you wish. If you made the choice, then the outcome is on you.

 

Well, I'm not sure either of those statements is correct. Many people adhere to the religion and church that they're brought up in, because childhood indoctrination is strong and hard to throw off. And the weight of the official view of the church is strong too.
You state the the weight of the outcome is your own, but you're being told that birth control is a sin and you may rot in Hell forever, so that would be the outcome, not of your own choosing.
I'm fortunate, my parents weren't religious so I was able to form my own opinions without the indoctrination.

 

And the go forth and multiply edict was the only way they could get children brainwashed into believing that there was only one true invisible man who lives in the sky, thereby ensuring more members, and their financial contributions would follow their cult.
If the children weren't brainwashed early enough by the parents they may have questioned the religion and found out that it was nonsense.

 

The unfortunate "rot in Hell" scenario comes more from the parents and grandmothers who tried to get their children in line. The stand of the Church is that Life is important. The Bible view was "It is better to put your seed in the belly of a Whore than let it fall to the ground". If there is NO God , then, how did this all come about? The biggest mystery for most of us who believe in GOD is "who made GOD"? The Churches position is "God always was and always will Be". Their answer is a matter of taking it on faith. Way beyond my comprehension. (and theirs also I suppose)

 

Did you form your opinions in a vacuum?

 

God tells us he is the Alpha and the Omega. No one made God, and if you truly believe the Bible and God’s word you would know no one made God.

 

Religion was always about crowd control, as you state.
So it's better to have sex with a prostitute than masterbate? This is the moral highground?
If there is no god, then it happened naturally.
Nothing is beyond your comprehension if you have some brains to think with.

 

No, I thought about it and used my intelligence.

 

No one believes the bible and god's word, except those indoctrinated at a young age, and without the intelligence to challenge it.

 

This was a mistake. If poverty, war and the abuse of migrants are really important, it's an idiotic blunder to include gender issues in the same document because it completely overshadows any other more positive messages. If he feels really strongly about it, a stand-alone gender issue statement, at a different time and on its own would have been... at least less bad, and certainly more conductive to their goals.

 

I feel like it's more often an abundance of desperation and emotion than a lack of intelligence, from what I observe. I doubt I could lie to myself like that even if I was maximally desperate - and I've been in bad places mentally before - but an ability to deceive oneself isn't quite the same as being stupid.

 

It's probably too late to get into a discussion, but childhood indoctrination is hard to throw off.

 

How do you explain Born Again Christians with your vast intelligence? These folks are not indoctrinated children.

 

Yeah that part I fully agree with, and applies to most religious people. The part about others who convert later being stupid is the part I was addressing. I don't think there's a strong trend of lower intelligence in people who convert. Rather, the common thread is having a strong emotional reason to do so and being able to lie to themselves to feel better. You see a lot of people convert when they go to prison. The reason is they need a way to emotionally cope with this terrible event of their life. But to use this powerful coping mechanism, they still need to be able to lie to themselves really. I guess being stupid would help, but the other factors seem more important when we're talking about most people, within a few standard deviations of normal.

 

I don't know. It says poverty, war and the abuse of migrants lead that list, and then abortion etc follow.

No, there are plenty of intelligent people who became believers at a mature age.

 

But which god?
Perhaps Brahma, who according to the oldest known mainstream religion of Hinduism, created everything.
And as Hinduism predates the christian cults by over 2000 years, their god must be the one true god.

 

8th day god got creative - All part of God's plan....