Pat Robertson: Divorce your wife with alzheimers

Pat Robertson chokes on his own foot again:

Is Pat Robertson not the most embarassing representative of Protestant Christianity?

 

Want to add very quickly that Pat Robertson is a bafoon that doesn't represent the majority of Protestant leaders. Anyone who is familiar with his thoughtless ejaculations (such as assassinating the president of Venezuela) should know this.

 

He's certainly high up in my personal top ten of those who make me cringe.

 

Could this be connected to the common religious tenet that sickness is a punishment? That a spouse is justified in leaving someone who has called divine justice upon her- or himself?

If so then it's obvious where the guy who claims earthquakes to be divine chastisement is coming from. And unfortunately not particular uncommon where he's coming from, I would add.

 

"I __ , take thee __ , to be my (wife/husband) to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, and I promise my love to you.."


Pat Robertson is a fool.

 

If only Pat knew that.

 

Yes, Robertson is a fool.. but many quietly divorce a chronically ill spouse to get government assistance when all the family assets are depleted.. and they often continue to live as if they were married and stand by their spouse.

Its an economic issue for our healthcare system.

Could YOU afford 100K a year for a decade or more?

 

I 1st came across Robertson and the 700 club in the late 70's, while living in Dallas and when Tom Landry (Dallas Cowboy's head coach) was a regular on the show. It was largely testimonials about ppl finding Christ in their lives and was both edifying as well as inspiring.

Then he started CBN, started raking in the $$$, and just like Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) with the Crouch's who put up 'gold thrones' in their studio etc., the actual sincerity and spiritual messages became those of prosperity (financial, of course) and 'words of knowledge' (used to build/motivate ppl's faith to receive whatever their needs), which I never felt were from God! I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, but not as man wills or as a sideshow to get $$$.

But all the big TV ministries of the time, along with PTL went the route of man's pride in self (while tongue-in-cheek in giving the credit to the Lord) pretty much all went down hill as 'ministries' and became but entertainment for 'religious' ppl, of which some I'm sure were sincere in their watching.

But Robertson's words & prophecies, with the many Biden-like gaffs that he has made over the many years, were dismissed by many as being 'well meaning' but over zealous.

The last time that I happen to see him (I quit watching "MOST" religious TV many years ago), he looked as if he was suffering from dementia or possibly the onset of Alzheimers!! Whatever, he has gone off the deep end and shouldnt be watched by those who are sincere (& esp. the 'baby') Christians, or send him $$..

 

Let's keep this in context. Pat Robertson gave the caller permission to divorce his wife so he could seek companionship elsewhere. And I don't care if the man is losing his mind in his old age. If he had that disposition in his heart before he went senile, then this is merely a revelation of how he truly thinks and believes.

 

As a rule, baby Christians should be warned from the start to never give money to TV personalities for any reason. Their tithes, offerings and donations should go to their church, the local food bank, and their local mission. If they have anything left over to give to the Jimmy Swaggart types, they should instead buy a Christian book on the godly stewardship of money that includes a strong emphasis on savings. Chuck Swindoll has some good materials on this subject.

 

When I said that I thought ".. he looked as if he was suffering from dementia or possibly the onset of Alzheimer's!', I was serious, and he may recognize those symptoms in his life and was giving an 'OK' to his wife to move on if he so goes down that path (?!). Whatever, it was his 'opinion' and had no scriptural basis.

I have a much older B-I-L with Parkinson's (for the past 10 yrs) which has robbed him of everything but his mind, and he 'detests' being a burden on his much younger wife as he continually physically decays from the neurological disease---he was a very active man all his life: scuba diving, snow skiing, world traveling, etc. into his mid-60's.

I know that no man, who has been the provider & protector of his family, the leader, wants to slowly go down hill and be a burden to his family--both financially & physically, for ppl tend to remember one as they were prior to their death than the vibrant young person that they were for most of their lives.

I understand Robertson's point...but, it would be a tough call for me, as I watched my uncle tend to his Alzheimer's wife, who about drove him crazy and ruined all his good memories of them both, as they had had a life-long love story up to her change into what he called: 'a mean, demanding, stranger.' She has passed on and you could tell that he was relieved at her passing---both for her to find peace, and for him to go on living and trying to recover his good memories of her..very sad.

 

The "burden to society" argument is a dangerous one, I believe. American Indians and Eskimos had a tradition of older tribal members to "take the journey" or "float the ice". On the one part, the older person didn't want to be a burden on his tribe in his old age. On the other part, there was a societal expectation that older people to do this. So part of the "not wanting to be a burden" is fed by the evil assumption that our senior citizens are better off dead. These people are just reflecting what society is telling them.

Maybe if Indians (my people) weren't so eager to shed their older tribe members, we might have benefited from their wisdom and not have lived a brutish life for thousands of years while the rest of the world modernized. My people were less advanced than even the ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamians that lived thousands of years before Europeans came to America. This is just a theory, but I think we were bereft of much needed wisdom that only old people can vouchsafe.

But we really are on a slippery slope. Some states have adopted physician assisted suicide "rights" and some European nations have been practicing this for decades amidst rumors that it's not such a voluntary practice after all. It all starts with thinking of the most vulnerable amongst us as a burden and we intimate to them that they're selfish for wanting to live out all their years. We tell them that they can end their suffering and probably should. It's a subtle method of murder and it's an egregious affront to the culture of life. We ought to be promoting the culture of life by teaching people to see the value of life in every stage of it; that life is good and worth living, even at the end stages.

I don't mind suffering in my old age if a debilitating disease afflicts me. In suffering, I am united with the sufferings of Christ and can offer my sufferings for the conversion of souls. This is a thoroughly Catholic viewpoint and thoroughly pro life, and I don't apologize for it.

 

It is not the suffering of the one afflicted, who often like with Alzheimer's, is unaware of even their 'own person,' but the caring & compassionate person who still has their faculties does not want to afflict their loved ones. Willing to forgo the remnant of their fleeting mortal life in their love for their family et al, and looking forward to the glory that awaits them.

Be careful that your comments and zeal do not label you as a cold, detached, religious person; but rather strive for the compassion of Christ, who often 'moved' in that emotion, and did not condemn sinners (those who could not 'see') but condemned those who 'thought that they could see but were in fact blind" (spiritually), as the dead, dry religious Pharisees of His day---for they are still around in abundance TODAY as 'supposed' followers of Christ (as in outward appearances, but still dead inside).

I live my life based on trusting in the grace of God, for both my salvation as well as His mercy, with there being only 1 sin leading unto spiritual death, and do not check off the 'do's & dont's" of the OT Law in trying to earn His favor, for the Law has both been fulfilled and done away with.

I would suggest that to better relate to the issue in this discussion, as a Christian, go minister in an Alzheimer's hospice for several months, and then check back with your 'comments'...

[BTW, FYI: I was raised Roman Catholic, 1st Communion, Confirmation, Altar Boy, CYC/CYO, 2 yrs Latin,.. just to let you know where I came from...but now I only take the labels: Christian or Believer....]

 

Disgusting. Disgraceful. Why do people still send him money?

 

I'd argue he is much like his fellow protestant leaders.
I havnt seen a Televangelist who wasnt a oppertunistic scumbag who preys on the vunerable.

 

The other side of that is to have enough respect for the life that God gave us to live every day he sees fit to give us.

I think there's nothing more cold and detached than to communicate to our most seasoned citizens that they're better off dead. There's no nice and compassionate way to express such an ignoble sentiment.

So you're not Catholic. Nobody's perfect. Enjoining our sufferings to the sufferings of Christ is a Catholic tradition that has strong basis in scripture (Col 1:24) And just as the suffering of Christ have won eternal life for all who believe in Him, our sufferings enjoined with Christ's are efficacious for the conversion of souls.

Oops! I don't buy that thinking that I have to experience something directly before commenting on it. Even those who have seen alzheimers can come away saying they should all be put out of their misery. You can see something with your own eyes and come away with the wrong lesson or you can never see something with your own eyes yet still have the correct perspective on it. Anecdotal evidence in many ways is a wash.

That's good enough for me to call you brother.

 

Your outside perspective is completely ignorant of the facts. I'm well aware or the teachings of many Protestant leaders such as David Wilkerson, Hank Hennograff, Tim LaHaye, and Max Lucado. There's almost no place in Protestant Christianity where Pat Robertson's views can find root. Perhaps you shouldn't comment on matters that are foreign to you.

It's a Christian thing. You wouldn't understand.

 

Jesus moved in compassion, and a case of His 'weeping' was documented in scripture (I see it as identifying with the ppl & their anguish at the time, and not what many called weeping for a friend or because of the ppl's unbelief).

And so words of emotion as defined:

compassion
n
a feeling of distress and pity for the suffering or misfortune of another, often including the desire to alleviate it

[from Late Latin compassio- fellow feeling, from compati- to suffer with]

used in conjunction with:

empathy
n
1. the power of understanding and imaginatively entering into another person's feelings.


This is where much of the religious community 'misses it' in making everything 'black or white' without any shades of gray---ONLY God knows the hearts of men and can make those decisions!

Even with the issue of abortion, many/most Christians will concede to OK to save the life of the mother, or rape, or incest, etc. I am 'pro-life,' but also concede in certain instances, since I know where the innocent unborn go when they die---no, NOT limbo!

And it appears that the physical dying of the mortal body is the all important factor in what Christians will have to accept as but a step to eternal life. Even the Apostle Paul was in a quandary, near the end of his life on earth, of 'whether to live as more of living for Christ & the Gospel; or to let go & 'die' as being "gain." (my para).

Too many Christians focus on temporal & fleeting mortal life rather than on eternal life, being continually in the presence & glory of their Creator...

May God soften your heart as you experience and enter into the suffering of others as you walk this life...OD

 

God may know our hearts, but a sin is a sin.

"Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment." (Ecclesiates 11:9)

We do not follow our hearts, we follow God.

"But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body." (2 Cointhians 4:7-11)

Mr. Robertson was simply wrong to give his advice to divorce a spouse with Alzheimers. Each of these instances, Sandra Day O'Connor did the same thing when her husband literally forgot who he was, who she was, and fell in love with another woman, is different. To give such blanket advice in such circumstances, and to do so publically is shameful.


We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. (Shakespear)

If we run fromour most difficult battles, if we give up on them, especially those that involve those closest and most important to us, the cost is guilt and deep seated regret. To publically advise people that this is an OK thing to do, is to invite rationalization into the prcess and ultimately dishonor.

Mr. Robertson was wrong to advise on this matter publically at all. He was wrong not to offer fellowship and private council. He was wrong not to explore and prode the man with several issues, to allow him to weigh the costs and benefits in light of likely consequences and allow the man HIS choice in compassion and privacy.

Robertson's actions were shameful.

 

i think he's fighting for that title with Fred Phelps.

 

So Pat isn't a "real" Christian like all the other TV snake-oil sellers?

 

Are all atheists Satlinists?

Robertson is Christian, he simply made a horrible mistake, and, unlike the atheist community, we call our mistaken brothers to account for issuing bad advice.

 

Agreed he gave his opinion and did so publicly as a Christian leader, but with no scriptural basis. That was a mistake; and as NT scripture says about teachers & leaders, that they will incur a stricter judgement for leading others astray.

In regards to the man who Robertson was giving advice to: as fellow believers, just be careful of not being a NT religious person who may fall into the same trap as the religious Jews of Jesus day, who were ready to stone an adulteress because of her sin....let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone.

Jesus saw her sin and had compassion on her, forgiving her sin...not in condemning her. We may be allowed to 'inspect' a person's fruit in their life, but are not called to 'judge' them...ONLY God knows the whole & entire story, and that is why He has the right to fairly judge.

I prefer to focus on the grace and forgiveness of God and not on His judgement...

 

This is wear I disagree with many Christians. The warning in the Bible is not, "do not judge", it is, "do not judge hypocritically."

The reality of all humans is that we have sinned. As a manager, for example, I am sure we have all been late to meetings, but that does not mean we do not chastize our subordinates when they are late or unprepared for a meeting. The fact that we have been in error does not alleviate us from accountability.

Indeed, the fact that I once told my wife that dress did not make her butt look big when it did, does not excuse me from having to confront a man who is lying to simply avoid a duty.

Indeed: "Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended."

Indeed, the entire concept of excommunication (from many churches) is EXACTLY about accountability. Sin is a breach between ourselves and God. However, there are some actions that we take that don't just damage our relationship with God, they severe it entirely.

For example, a sure fire way to get excommunicated from a church is to openly and brazenly commit adultry.

At its worst, and not saying this to you, the lack of accountability leads to hypocritical Christians who continue to lead a life of sin and intemperance, for al they have to do is ask God for forgiveness and all is forgiven. That is not how it works. Sin if forgiveness through repentance, honest repentance, and that is the acknowledgement that we have sinned, geuine remorse for our actions, and desire to avoid sin. Grace is what allows this to happen. Grace is what allows an HONEST man or woman to make mistakes, large and small, one striving to learn and grow in God, to err. It does not mean that one will not be called to account by the community if and when the err.

The entire concept of fellowship is not just about brotherhood and the enjoyment of social activities, it is about holding one another accountable. None of us is perfect, and none of us can do it alone. We often see ourselves imperfectly, while others see the faults we have rationalized away.

Grace is a gift, it is not a get out of jail free card.

In this, and as a Christian, it is necessary to stand up and tell Robertson that his advice was in error. I have certainly sinned, as has Pat Robertson, but that does not make the advice sound or the need to correct it and less pressing.

The ultimate lesson is compassion in judgement, not a lack of judgement because of compassion.

 

Bottom line is that the Gospel of the Kingdom is one of 'grace, forgiveness of sins thru repentance,' and not of judgement.' Jesus never preached fear & condemnation, and only chastised the 'religious' ppl of His day who 'thought that they saw but were blind.'

I know of no one who 'came to the Lord' because of the fear of Hell; but came because of the love of God and His forgiveness----using the ole honey & not vinegar example.

I see too many of the lost who are driven away by 'religious' ppl, not seeing that love and grace, than are drawn by the preaching of Hell & (*)(*)(*)(*)ation. Love rather than fear shud be the message!

I am not a proponent of 'sloppy agape' or 'greasy grace,' but I also dont want to be the follower who drives men & women away from the Good News by cold, detached, hard, religious judging and finger pointing.

In my case, when Jesus was 'chastised' by His disciples for letting the woman rub His feet with her tears and hair, He replied "Those who have been forgiven much, do love much." (my para), I also respond with that like attitude. Too many 'religious' ppl are similar in their attitude to that of the brother of the prodigal son, who do not understand the father's forgiveness, but are cold in their attitude concerning those who have strayed.

Re-read your last post and examine the attitude that it was written with, and would invoke in a non-believer who reads it....