Islam is hopeless part II

The fact that you discuss "travel", is an indicator that you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the things mentioned in the Islamization Quiz in Post # 185. 90% of that is in the USA. Travel is irrelevant.

 

Addendum to post 196.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Islamization

http://www.google.com/#pq=wiktionar...slamiz&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on

 

sure sure.

be well.

 

The way you present this list smacks of desperation and mania...because of that, how do you expect anyone to want to research all of those names?

It's not a quiz...it's an invitation to take a walk through a world full of delusional misinformation

 

Human sins are payed before hand? Payed by whom? Before when, before birth or after sinning?

l

Very true, that is why the teachings of Christianity is base on the essential doctrines of Jesus Christ that consist of love, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, put away the sword, and many more none violence Scriptures.

Original sin was not created by God it was committed and came to being by man's (Adam and Eve) own action to sin that resulted in the gates of Paradise closing to our souls. It was started by Satan and Jesus Christ destroy the original sin created or started by Satan.

True again, that is why Allah chose that the best way to destroy the original sin and re-open Paradise to us is by becoming human to die for us as we have die or are willing to die for Him ( Abraham offering his son Isaac to God) on the cross and to resurrect to demonstrate that God is Almighty and all loving.

Unfortunately the Quran is the wrong book it is incomplete it has intentionally negated the essential Doctrine and Scriptures of Allah that can only be found in its fullness in the Holy Bible.

The Bible is The Book, the book that contains that Words of God. It is not just a reminder but a whole account of the history of our relationship to God.

True, guidance is from God and in His appointed angels, prophets and messengers but most of all from God Himself who become human to personally deliver the revelation and establish Himself as the One True God.

That is why we pray;

Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

That is why we pray that we will live up to Jesus Christ expectations and that we live a saintly lives but at the same time to be saintly will mean we have to allow ourselves to be walk over by enemies of Christ. Yes it is very difficult to be a good Christian without standing up or fighting back to enemies who preyed on our saintliness and look at it as weaknesses for them to exploit and take advantage of. Satan tried to exploit God's humanity and God in spite of being in human form possessing human weaknesses was able to stand up to Satan and cast him away.
May God grand us the serenity
to accept the things we cannot change;
courage to change the things we can;
and wisdom to know the difference. Amen

Only God can forgive sins, and us can forgive people who have sinned against us and pray that God will forgive their sins.

"‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).

Then is Khadija a Hanif follower, Christian or Jew?
If Hanif was already in existence pre-Islamic times would this mean that it wasn't the Bible that is corrupt? Because Bible contents were all about the Isaac lineage while Hanif is suppossed to be about Ishmael lineage, hypothesis would seem that after Ishmael was gone there was no prophets around to continue the Abraham religion of One God the same God of Isaac, succeeding descendants of Ishmael started to corrupt their own Abraham religion with paganism just like the Jews tried to replace God with a golden calf. The difference was that the Jews have prophets like Moses to keep them from being corrupted while the Ishamalites don't.

Therefore the Quran should concentrate on the Ishmael lineage that missing link instead of taking all the Isaac prophets and changing their stories to to reflect their own missing link.

IMO that was why Khadija and Waraqa were very excited about Mohammed spiritual visitation because they must have thought that Mohammed was that missing link that prophet that was to re-introduce Abraham One God religion to the Arabs. But as it turns out, Mohammed started to use prophets of the Bible instead of prophets link to Ishmael worse he introduce his own religion called Islam.

Jins are different from angels and demons, in the West it is equivalent to leprechauns, elves or fairies.

Jins is an Arab belief that apparently Mohammed has incorporated into Islam even though Khadija and Waraqa assured Mohammed there was no such thing.

What was included in the Quran which are the jins does this mean that indeed the spirit that visited Mohammed was a jin and not an angel?

Why?

Who is making addition and subtraction? In fact it is the Quran that did substantial edition, subtraction and additions of the Holy Bible and its establish history.

Then you should seek the true Words of Allah for they are not found in the Quran.

Agree 100%, that is why we Christians are more involved in textual research and are always excited when new discoveries are found. Unlike Muslims, they seem to dislike new discoveries especially if it involves Islam because they strongly believe that the present Quran is the original.

On the contrary, we become more aware of God's omnipotent power by understanding God's revelation.

On the other hand, Muslim have problem maximizing the use of their God given talent of knowledge and intellect they can not move out of their box.

You are viewing it in an earthly manner, putting a limit to what Allah is capable of totally contradicting your claim that Allah is all powerful and can do anything. Allah has said from the very beginning that He will send a redeemer in fact everyone was waiting for the redeemer what they didn't expect was that it will be Allah Himself and that what He will be redeeming are our souls not giving us earthly empires or power.

 

I disagree . I doubt I'd have learnt as much as I did , without travelling. For example , I've , like everyone else , have seen umpteen photos , images etc. of the Grand Canyon , and several other American National Parks, but , no way could I've grasped/enjoyed/appreciated , its awesome immensiity than , travelling to it , and being there.

No way could I've have learnt as much as I did abt , Jerusalem, the Holy Land, Paris, Rome , Seville.Granada , Petra, Beirut , Carthage , Istanbul, Damascus . Aleppo, Kuwait , Jeddah, Glasgow, Edinburgh etc.etc. if , I'd not travelled and experienced the atmosphere, + met a few of its people,

I'm afraid - travel has a great to do with one's understanding and perception of other people.


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I would say its awful wherever it appears. Was there a point or just stating the obvious?

Youll need to copy and paste those blanket generalizations of mine so I might have some hope of knowing what you are going on about now. Mostly Ive quoted Islamic doctrine and Islamic writers.

I never made any assertions regarding the relative levels of domestic violence. Are ya just grasping for refuge in another strawman? So typical.

 

Perhaps so, however how many Chrstians practice Christianity's "teachings " _ the doctrines of Jesus Christ . ?
Christian Nations record is by no means the least violent, loving and forgiving , turning the other cheek , dont you agree. ?

IMO - they're preaching one thing and practicing the opposite .

Huh ? On the one hand , its claimed that your God , is almighty , the creator of the Universe , + all things , blah - blah - creator of Adam + Eve , including Satan , the please explain why you now claim that Evil and originalk Sin wasnt - all part of your God's plan. ? Did your god create Satan ? If so , then why did yr god empower Satan to challenge + be such a strong force against Jesus Christ. ?

Pls try coming back with some sort of rational /logical response , in plain English , which any mere ordinary human can understand . Thanks ...


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Yes , coz by you asking what my point was , sounded as if you didnt read or understood my earlier post.

No , I was jsimply hoping you'd understand that domestic violence was'nt exclusive to Muslims , its nighon universal , a point which you apparantly have still NOT grasped.

Tatty-byeeee.

 

Well, Im sure you learned lots of helpful travel tips, but thats not what we are discussing here. The topic is "Islam", a religious doctrine. No need to travel to witness it. I went to Greece once, but it didnt give me a better understanding of the writings of Plato.

Basically, I think you are just full of yourself.

 

Like I said, you are "just stating the obvious". I got it. And where are those examples of my "blanket generalizations". If you are going to accuse me, you should back up your assertions when asked. Otherwise we can all see that you are full of (*)(*)(*)(*), while simultaneously being full of yourself.

 

Herein lies another huge disconnect about how westerners percieve the Q'uran.

Many passages from the Q'uran not only lose a bit in translation...you're at the mercy of the translator. You and protectionist may be under the impression you're reading the Q'uran, but you're really just reading an interpretation.

Without reading it in it's original Arabic, while also possessing a working understand of Arabic, the margin for misunderstanding is huge.

 

That is why it is very difficult to be a true Christian, if all Christian will live by 100% as true Christians we , Christians will all be dead killed, massacred by Muslims and the whole world be truly be under Islamic rule.

Here is the theory, God's kingdom is not of this world as reveal by Jesus Christ. God did not create Satan, Satan evolved from Lucifer whom God created with free will and it was Lucifer's choice to become Satan not God's. Did God knew Lucifer will rebel, no because God have gave Lucifer free will and with that free will God excuse Himself or you may want to say limit Himself in intervening at Lucifer's free will.

Once God empowered the angels and humans with the free will He basically step aside so that they may evolved accordingly and be responsible beings that will fill His Heavenly kingdom. Did God did all this to satisfy Himself like a game? no, He did this because he wants to give us a chance to earn the right to live an everlasting happiness and to share in His everlasting glory.

God could have just created regular creatures minus the intellect and spirit just like other animals and avoid all these doubts about Him, wars between men, but He didn't because God wants to share His glory.

To understand all these is like trying to understand the infinite universe, what is the black hole? Cause and effect? The human mind? space travel, etc. Right now we surely have no definite answer as to all your questions about God, maybe one day when we expanded our science to the point that we discover other intellectual beings in other planets, then we can probably understand better if there is indeed a God or not.

 

Kind of irrelevant to our debate here since both sides are using english translations. Irrelevant as well because the majority of Muslims dont speak Arabic. Irrelevant as well since its ARAB, Islamic Fundamentalist at the forefront of their war against the west. Irrelevant as well since all the Islamic writers Ive quoted, spoke arabic as a first language.

 

I wish we had such statistics, as it is far worse here in Saudi Arabia.

Our homes are like mini-prisons with tall fences and iron doors and windows. Women are treated like cattle, and die or commit suicide at a very high rate.

I worked in the emergency room of one of the largest hospitals in the country. Not a single day went by without having to treat women who have been victims of domestic violence.

What bothers me the most is that men who do this go unpunished, because according to Islam, women are a man's property, and he could do whatever he wants with them.

 

When both sides are using interpretations, both sides have the same increased potential for distortion.

The majority of Muslims have to trust an interpretation

How does that render the fact that you rely on translations for the content of the Q'uran irrelevant?

What you offer are interpretations of what those Arabic writers wrote...probably presented by anti Islamic sources.

Eveything you know is second, third, fourth, fifth, or twentieth hand information. You've never seen these people with your own eyes.

Doesn't it raise any red flags with you that the people who've traveled to the middle east as civilians on this site don't fear these things like you do?

 

This statistics are a clear demonstration that we in the West have a better and reliable records keeping. That is why we are very confident that the Bible is authentic because of the history of accurate, sincere and interest to keep records.

In Saudi Arabia it is not safe for Christian to even discuss the Bible with a Muslim store keeper in public, or conduct a public seminar.

 

Would this mean that the Quran is corrupted then?
Or is there an intentional plot to mislead Westerners by supplying us with false Quran?

 

How odd - my sister was a nurse in a Jeddah Hospital and never saw anything like you describe .

BTW - can you produce substation in yr allegation
that " according to Islam, women are a man's property, and he could do whatever he wants with them

Or are just parroting /repeating the same old crap I've been hearing from most Islamophobes ?

FYI - I spent 3 yrs in Saudi, - based in Eastern province - Al-Khobar, near Aramco. Frankly I was far too busy to take note of their local domestic affairs., however my wife + sister had closer links with local women and in a better position to have noticed excesive cases of illtreatment of women.


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What Rubbish ? - the bible AUTHENTIC ? LOL - Hell ! its without doubt one of the worse conceivable records. Yet it doesnt seem to stop gullible Christian nutters trying to peddle + pass off as "authentic" ? Hehehehe.



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If you're really interested, then why not spend some time and make a thorough study of the quran , instead of asking daft questions. Go straight to the source.


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No idea....I'm merely trying to illustrate the value of getting your information first hand, and I'm trying to emphasize the skepticism one should apply to interpretations.

I suspect that the anti Muslim fear mongering industry in the US relies on misinterpretation regularly

 

No. The Arabic version is just the pure version. It's still available for anybody to read. And Muslims are encouraged to read the Quran in Arabic, even if we've read a translated version. If you call the Quran corrupted for being translated then all Holy Books are corrupt, because the Quran, Torah and Bible have all been translated.

You're joking right? Look up the translators. Do you really think when they translated the Quran, they thought about something like that? The translations aren't false, they are just translated. Arabic is not a language easily translated into English. Which is why there are different versions of translated Quran.

سلام

 

It IS a Quiz, and it is simply a list of some of the most common things and people that have been involved in Islamization in the USA (mostly) and Europe over the past 15 years or so. Either you know the subject or you don't. If you had even the most basic grasp of the subject, you would know most of these.

I don't know where you get "desperation" or "mania" from, and frankly I don't much care. As for "misinformation" how would you know, when you have no idea who or what the information is, or anything about it ? All of it is factual stuff that has happened in the recent past. To call it misinformation is equivalent to saying these things didn't happen. Oh really ? So Major Stephen Coughlin didn't get fired from his Pentagon job for speaking out on militant Islam ? Sibel Edmonds didn't get fired from hers for the same thing ? Lina Morales didn't get fired from hers for bringing a BLT sandwich to work ?
Adnan el-Shukrijumah AKA Jaffar the Pilot (an al Qaeda operative) didn't have a janitorial job at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario in their nuclear reactor, and isn't accused of stealing a lot of uranium from it ? Ismail Elbarasse didn't have the archives of the North American Muslim Brotherhood hidden in his sub-basement and have it discovered by the FBI in 2004 ? (later declassified in the Holy Land Foundation trial) And Mazen Mokhtar, director of the youth division of MAS in New Jersey, wasn't accused by the US of assisting al Qaeda through the website www.minna.com. And that site wasn't soliciting funds for terrorist recruitment ? And his computer's hard drive wasn't found to have given directions for people to call Shammil Basayev (field commander of the Islamic army of the Caucasus) ? And a month later Baseyev didn't claim responsibility for one of the most horrific acts of Muslim terrorism ever committed ? ( the brutal slaughter of 186 schoolchildren in Beslan, Russia in 2004) So you say this is all "misinformation" ? Well, for your edification, the only misinformation regarding this is coming from YOU.

You would be much better off to do your Islamization homework, and get familiar with the subject, if you are going to go around talking about it. Pretending to be knowledgeable and casting judgements about things you have no clue about, only makes you look like a fool. Read Baby, Read.

 

Islamophobia is a condition which affects those who do not know about Islam. I on the other hand, know it very well.


This is what Islam says about women:
4:34 "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

23:5-6 "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..."

The Prophet (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said, "You and your wealth are your father's." (Ibn Majah no. 2292) (This saying is strictly used on daughters nowadays)

As for your own experience living in Saudi Arabia, have you ever been able to visit a house of your choosing? Do you think those who befriend westerners are the perfect representatives of the Saudi community?

Last but not least, was your sister working in a major public hospital which accepts all cases?