18c Amendment - Why or Why Not

I agree with what you are saying, but Logic and the truth stand. The cartoon was a true representation of reality, and to deny that, is denying the truth.

Only a victim mentality would read more into the cartoon that was actually represented. Its called being thin skinned, and some people really need to start thinking that the whole world doesn't just revolve around them, or their culture.

 

The "Aboriginal Race" is just made up bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

The government has absolutely no business arbitrarily categorizing people into "official" races.

How anyone can imagine this doesn't promote racism is beyond me.

 

I don't think government necessarily made up this so called notion of race. There are thousands of languages, cultural practices and traditions that are absolute distinct right across the planet. In some way or another people will identify themselves with a group. People just need to get over their preconceived, judgemental thinking. Fear is the wedge between humanity and the government uses fear to control the people, not race. That's my thought for the time being.

 

Government didn't make up "race", but our government certainly made up the "Aboriginal Race".

And today we have crap like this:

[video=youtube;EsZ11VVdP_M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsZ11VVdP_M[/video]

I don't think a belief that an entire race of people are basically only capable of sweeping streets and emptying garbage is born out of "fear".

 

You may have to elaborate on Government making up the aboriginal race, it could well be my IQ . I'm aware that the term aborigine is a government creation... You've got me intrigued though....

As for the video....I just couldn't help laughing my arse off at this Lynne idiot. There has to be a question over his IQ.

 

I wish it was funny, but I've heard this kind of thing from otherwise apparently intelligent people many times.

Aboriginal race is a legal invention of the Australian government, don't know what else there is to say about it really, seems fairly self explanatory.

 

The more you delve into this IQ testing stuff the more you realise how skewd the process is. I don't think Asians are more intelligent than Europeans, they're are other factors to consider in this whole process. So it is completely crap. African people who have never had a western education be it Asian or European aren't going to fair as well, which is obvious. This would include aborigines.

Still got me beat on this invention stuff but maybe I'll get it one day.

 

"Aboriginal race" has no meaning other than a legal one, as defined by government. Don't know how else to put it.

And yes IQ testing is culturally biased.

 

Like all terms regarding race and nationality, they're simply just terms to identify a group of people with commonalities and connection. They are all legal terms if you look at it that way.

So still not sure what you mean.

 

I'm talking about this:

http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/36-kinship-and-identity/legal-definitions-aboriginality

I'm not aware of anything equivalent for any other "race" in Australia.

I'd be surprised if 18c actually necessitated some determination from the Judge of who belongs to what race. But I don't know, maybe it does, and that's just a whole new can of worms. But I would have thought the perception and intent where important and not whether the victim actually identifies themselves in the way they have referred to. Seems like it would be bs if the judge had to determine whether someone was "really black" just because someone referred to them with the n-word. I mean, can you imagine that? Having to prove to a judge that you were really "black" and therefore justifiably offended? Surely that's not the case. I'd be interested if anyone knows.

 

At the end of the day the government used these terms to discrimate and segregate. Trying to reverse the damage requires the very same system of identification. Once the inequities have been addressed( only God knows when) I could see the term fading into insignificance.

I do think you are over simplifying things just a tad.

 

Inequities?

What are we actually talking about here? Not sure what you mean in regards to inequities

 

Not being a smart arse Slippery but just check out a dictionary. To extend on it, equality is not equality if there isn't equity to start with.

For instance. I think indigenous men's life expectancy is something like 56 where as compared to the rest of Australian men it is like 79 years. There is 24 years difference.

The inequity is the age difference. Obviously there is no equality of outcome. When that life expectancy is similar then we can start to roll back some of those special programs I guess. It's how we should look at a number of issues in society.

 

And......

A Japanese mans life expectancy is around 87, and a Nepalese over 90. So if age is the inequity, which I disagree with, then where does this leave your argument.

Did you mean lifestyle? Social isolation? Education?

If so I agree, as low life expectancy is merely the outcome, not the inequity.

 

I don't have any confidence that pouring billions of dollars into a broken corrupt system that was designed essentially to repress a racial population is ever going to produce any meaningful positive outcomes for society.

I don't buy that racial segregation will lead to racial equity. I thought we'd moved past "separate but equal", apparently not.

Even if racial segregation is the way to go, the current system still needs repealing and replacing.

 

Okay Slippery, to break it down it is unjust or unfair that aborigines die much younger than the broader "Australian community". How's that? We could have replaced unfair or unjust with "inequitable".

This inequity could be as a consequence education, diet, employment etc etc. Yeah there maybe inequities in these areas as possible sub groups to the impacts of low life expectancy.

Yes, these areas need special attention. But what about treating these people equal I hear you say! How can they be treated equal when they are possibly 24 years behind the rest of us in terms of life expectancy.

You give your 2 sons $50 each to buy new footy boots, the remainder is theirs to spend how they like. Yeah, that sounds like equality. What you failed to consider was that you bought one of them brand new boots just 6 months ago for his birthday. Now that's inequitable! ( yeah yeah....my analogies suck!)

 

Yeah but how do you address the needs of a distinct group of people who have been segregated for generations and generations. I think we need to get beyond our petty jealousies and envy. I was raised with this ignorant attitude that aborigines received more than me but when you understand the background you get the picture. What they receive does not even come close to meeting somewhere close to median Australia.

At the end of the day, we should have left these people alone. Yeah, it's hindsight but still relevant.

One thing is for certain, I've learnt more on this forum about these people and other issues, always keeping a contrarian open mind.

 

No one is envious or jealous of people living in impoverished Aboriginal communities.

Middle class welfare is a whole different kettle of fish.

More in this article if you're interested:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-26/call-for-end-to-perverted-race-based-welfare/4223694d

 

There is a BIG elephant staring at everyone in the room, and its called: irrational jealousy. I don’t care how many times certain individuals want to sugar coat or tip-toe around the truth, but the truth will always remain the same. 99% of the Aboriginal people will never be happy or content until such time as they have Australia back in their control, and white people are gone from their land.

The Aboriginal people don’t want to share and don’t want a partnership with white Australians, they just want everything back to the way it was before 1788, and they will never be happy or content until that happens - period.

Why do so many white Australians delude themselves into believing that Aboriginal people like them, when in fact the majority hate our guts and want to see us all gone

- - - Updated - - -

Do some people have a genuine fear of not being liked, and live in a fantasy world where everyone likes them?

 

I'm not sure what circles you mix in but can let you know that many of my family were concerned with petty jealously every time. My family were self centred and oblivious to the world around them because anybody who wasn't a Christian was going to hell and you shouldn't mix with them. We didn't know that aborigines were restricted in many of the opportunities of mainstream society just only a generation ago. It's a revelation for some and others just say, "well things are different now". Easy to say when they are half a century behind us.

 

The "non-white = not Christian" thing happens a lot, but there's higher rates of Christianity among Aboriginals than the general population.

It's not surprising to me that lots of people resent the perceived preferential treatment of Aboriginals by the government, frankly it just proves my point that any "special treatment" inherently creates unhealthy division in society. Sympathy is just the flip side of resentment, they're both unhealthy.

 

We build Wheel chair ramps and elevators for the disabled and elderly. We support the blind with Braille and coloured posts. We assists people who come from low socio-economic backgrounds along with pensioners. Who complains about people who get these things? No, it isn't based on race but it is acknowledgement of varying circumstances that people face. We assist the disabled by providing group homes.....etc etc.
These people are disadvantaged.

We know aborigines are the least housed, most incarcerated, highest mortality rate, least educated and least employed. I mean, isn't that enough to suggest that something different needs to be done? People who resent this assistance are simply motivated by other factors. That's the only way I can see it sorry Ziggy.

What you say does not make sense. It would certainly make sense if current outcomes were equal but they bloody aren't.

 

You just equated Aboriginality with disability.

 

Check out the Government program called “closing the gap” in 2010, targeted for school attendance and retention of indigenous Australian students.

The special programs for indigenous students ONLY:

1) Australian Indigenous Education Foundation AIEF
2) Cape York Institute Higher Expectations Program (HEP)
3) The Yalari Foundation
4) Future Footprints Program
5) The Catherine Freeman Foundation
6) Sanctions
7) ‘Hooks’, incentives and rewards program
The Clontarf Foundation
9) Music outback Foundation


Yes. Aboriginal students are definitely being discriminated against with all these special programs designed for their needs and education.

Special Aboriginal education programs that white Australian students are not privy too.

How the hell can a group of people with so many special education programs call themselves under-privileged and discriminated against?

Maybe the real problem with indigenous education is not the lack of funding & programs, but because the majority of the Aboriginal people are just too lazy and too stupid to learn.


http://www.aihw.gov.au/uploadedFiles/ClosingTheGap/Content/Publications/2010/ctg-ip01.pdf

 

Yeah, but in terms of disadvantage.