2016, What armed self-defense looks like.

I think you are right. Last I heard about a year ago, Florida had 1.3 million CHLs. Probably close to 1.5M now. I read a news story the other day that said Texas has 925,000 CHLs. (now called LTCs - License To Carry) I think Texas is gaining on Florida, but we haven't caught you yet.

 

Great thread.

 

LOL also flies in the face of the anti-gun nutters. Guns aren't supposed to be used for self defense....just crimes and suicides, and other nefarious deeds. Otherwise they can't justify getting rid of them.

 

http://concealednation.org/2016/01/...r-vietnam-vet-beats-armed-robber-on-the-draw/

Can anyone point out one of the other influencing factors that assisted in justifying the use of deadly force besides the obvious of being held at gunpoint? It's worth 10 points.

 

The age of the would be victim and the attacker.

 

I posted the following in another thread, but it also applies here. I believe in training beyond minimum proficiency. While few do it, I also advocate stress combat training as engaging in a real situation isn't like Hollywood. But, even without that type of training, you need to know as much as you can about your choice of gun and your abilities.

I advocate that with whatever handgun you choose to carry is to test shooting it at ranges from 5ft to 50 yards and beyond to understand the trajectory and impact of the rounds you are shooting, your limitations (trigger control, how fast you can acquire a sight picture, your ability to point shoot, etc.) and your gun's limitations though with that latter, most guns will shoot better than you can hold. For instance, for cycling in the summer heat, I carry a diminutive and light NAA Pug .22 mag which is capable of reasonable groups out to 15 yrds or so, but because of the small round size and the need to make precise head or heart shots to reliably stop an attacker, the combination of sight radius, difficulty with keeping consistency with trigger pull with that size gun, and speed of making a good sight picture, I have determined for me, my maximum range of combat confidence is probably under well under 20'. Depending on my attire and ability to conceal, I may carry a small single stack 9mm, a medium double stack 9mm, or an HK 45c. I know how quickly I can engage a target, where to aim to know my point of impact at any distance, and my level of confidence at any distance with each pistol. With the medium size 9mm and the HK 45c, I can hit a coffee can at 100yds 4 out of 5 times...if I take my time. At 7yrds rapid fire, I can put every round in the head of a silhouette with both 9's and the .45 with near instinctive point shooting.

I do train at all distances, but one reason I train at longer distances is it forces you to continually practice on your trigger pull, probably the greatest factor in handgun accuracy, because any poor habits are magnified and immediately visible.

In my opinion, you can't over train. The more you train, the more confidence you have and as importantly, knowing your limitations is a key to your life, and the lives of those you protect.

 

Aside from the obvious threat and fear for your or someone else's life, I maintain there is an additional moral obligation, if someone threatens your life or that of another, your moral obligation is to end that threat so it doesn't happen to someone else by the same attacker/s if you have the capability. However, when I train people I often submit to them when your or someone else's life is in immediate danger, you likely won't have time to think about anything but ending the immediate threat.

 

The guy was trespassing?

 

It sounds like you would be a good candidate for our "force on force" training class. This class isn't for everyone, but it's great for those with plenty of experience.

 

I would say the same thing...... "disparity of force".

 

Judging from the title of the course, it sounds like one of the courses I used to teach. One thing about teaching, you often learn as well and I've usually been one open to learning from others no matter my skill level is. No matter how good you are someone knows more and is better.

I have over 45 years of martial arts, been in combat, and used to teach knife fighting and defense as well various gun courses. In one of the courses I used to teach more advanced students was what I would term Force on Force, how to prepare for meeting various levels threat with increasing levels of escalation of force to overcome an attack short of, but up to that last resort of using deadly force if necessary. In situations of stress not everyone can keep the clarity of mind, or awareness in a dynamic situation to end an attack short of deadly force, but be able to both instantly assess when that transition is required and then be mentally prepared to take the correct action. I used to teach if all you train with is a gun, you will likely respond to threats with the limited option gun. If on the other hand people are taught their bodies are weapons, knives are weapons, a pen is a weapon, a book, or nearly anything at hand, they have many options to meet different levels of threat short of a the deadly force of a gun. One thing difficult to simulate in training is the stress from real life encounters, but the more training someone has the more muscle memory and situational assessment skill, flexibility, and situational awareness someone may have when that massive adrenaline surge does it's physical and mental thing.

One thing I emphasize in learning escalation levels is understanding what potentially happens legally and civilly when an encounter is over. Understanding when that line is crossed what will happen is imprortant. I take people through the law, all the after scenarios and ramifications, the potential psychological impacts, etc. One thing I often suggest, if you fully understand the after ramifications and find yourself wondering if you can take that step of deadly force, you probably aren't in a deadly force situation because when you are in that situation you will be too consumed by stopping an attack on yourself or someone else to worry about the after consequences.

 

DING DING DING YAHTZEE LOL good call I see you have a firm grasp on UOF Now here is your 10 point, don't spend em all in one place.

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Very good explanation!

 

OK for 20 points can someone give me a semi comprehensive list of influencing factors that could be used to justify a use of deadly force even if the attacker was unarmed? Chuck.......please answer with one at a time as you have a distinct advantage!

 

disparity of force (vastly outnumbered and threatened)
They broke into your occupied dwelling or car. (in Texas)
To prevent aggravated assault, rape, arson, murder, robbery, and criminal mischief(after night in TX).

 

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Chuck what do you have?

 

The castle doctrine pretty much covers all bases if you are in your home.

If you are in public, it's a little more tricky. You have to be able to articulate to investigators after a self defense shooting that the attacker had the following..........

1. The intention. (This could be something overt like saying I'm going to kill you, or something like striking you.
2. The opportunity. ( this is simple when it comes to unarmed attackers, they simply need to be in close proximity)
3. The ability. (Disparity of force, or they can be armed with non traditional weapons, think George Zimmerman, he believed his life was in imminent danger because his attacker was using the sidewalk to beat his head against.)

 

Kevin Brown kicked in the wrong door. The guy who found Brown tried to stress that he was shot by "Caucasians", but Texans don't care. Investigators will see where the victims' front door was kicked in and close the book on this case.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ma...Door-Kicked-In-Police-365765761.html#comments

 

Door got kicked in? Honey badger don't care.

[video=youtube;zn3KCSm3ui4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn3KCSm3ui4[/video]

 

http://concealednation.org/2016/01/...-for-first-time-in-his-life-on-home-intruder/

Well it might be one of those rare occurrences, but he had it when he needed it.

 

http://concealednation.org/2016/01/...-please-do-keep-bringing-knives-to-gunfights/

Violent criminals get violent responses.

 

http://concealednation.org/2016/01/...art-armed-robbers-in-barbershop-saving-lives/

No victims injured hmmmm, it's getting tough to be a criminal nowadays!

 

Here is my list of influencing factors.
Age disparity
Size disparity
Gender
Health disparity
Known skill disparity (martial arts, military training)
Force disparity (more of them than you)
Position disparity
I am sure there are more, feel free to add.

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http://concealednation.org/2016/01/woman-fends-off-intruder-with-large-caliber-handgun/

All I can say is them Texas women shoot dang big guns.

 

He's going to find it hard to attack anyone else while wearing a colostomy bag for the rest of his life.

 

CHL guy saves police officer in Bastrop, TX.

http://m.statesman.com/news/news/local/officials-gun-toting-veteran-saves-life-of-bastrop/nqD7c/

 

Outstanding. Also, awesome mustache.