A DECENT SECONDARY SCHOOLING

Discussion in 'Education' started by LafayetteBis, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is the above too much to ask for if we-the-sheeple are paying local-taxes that finance secondary-schooling?

    Or, rather, is it politicians who do not have a good grounding in Civics? EACH pretendant for an election (local, state, national) should be obliged to take a test in Civics before being allowed to run for office! If we don't rake-out the quacks without acceptable qualifications for the post, we get poor representation in state and national government!

    And we-the-sheeple have only ourselves to blame!

    In a democracy, regardless of the level (city, state, national) one always has the governance voted by the public. We cannot blame politicians if it's "we-the-sheeple" that voted them into office! They are merely a reflection of ourselves*.

    And as far as "ourselves" go - we have presently in Secondary-Schooling a Civics Instruction that is less-than-average. In some states it is awful ...


    NB: From the Brookings Institution: What does Civics Education Look Like in America - excerpt:
    [​IMG]

    I am excerpting just the above infographic from the text, which is highly specific in nature. The chart demonstrates what the kids think about their participation in various aspects of schooling. Interesting, their opinion, isn't it? (Note from the above that the colouring (from
    dark-to-light-blue) show student personal-opinion indicated in a span of "bad-through-to-good".)

    If really-'n-truly interested about the subject, read the report in its entirety as linked above ...

    *And blaming in a blog does not help that much. It's OUR INVOLVEMENT at our school-level locally that matters most! After all, we're the ones paying the taxes that subsidize local primary and secondary level instruction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  2. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Okay it USED TO be good in my father and mothers case they earned diplomas my mom was ready to work in retail including ,this was when it was a skill, a year of cashiering and displaying goods and marketing basics and dressmaking and repairing appliances and how to handle her own finances etc. My father left with enough accounting skills to get a job in accounting plus general office skills and business etiquette plus own finances and both Spanish and well enough to use it well. Both also did work-study for credit in their areas of work for two years. An uncle went to a dedicated Agricultural school and one the Academic school where they left prepared well for college. Now what is the point they don't do either employment skills well, or pre-college well and this when its virtually free to students paid for by taxpayers.

    Isn't it a good idea if its public funds and also to all students free for the most part so no debt to make sure each student is either employable out of the box, can go on for more training at an advanced level to get specialized higher level skills or are truly ready for college sending the top tier minds and the most motivated who are intelligent enough to colleges and universities? I'd rather see good computer coders coming out of secondary school and more traditional areas of work than needing to pay for this afterwards.

    Civics prep should be in grades up to 8th grade same for breadth of knowledge unless one is going to college maybe one course in secondary school would be enough.
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a disingenuous argument to start off with, "The taxpayers are paying some money for secondary schooling, ergo the taxpayers should expect fully paid secondary schooling."

    I'm just going to say this: The more free education that is given out there to everybody, the higher the educational requirements are going to be of employers, when deciding who gets the job.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ayup. If kidergarten was the standard, the good jobs would require first grade. If we all get a Bachelors degree, the good jobs will require a Masters.

    We should prolly eliminate education altogether and just hire people from a lottery. For equality.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And me this: The more stoopid America becomes, the more Its economy suffers from the inability to cope with International Competition thus contributing to higher-than-need-be levels of unemployment.

    Which is kinda-sorta massive stoopidity for any nation to do ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are blind to the fact that we are traversing ages. The Industrial Age has long-since almost wholly moved to China.

    The Information Age is upon-us, and it requires a higher general level of aptitudes provided uniquely by a Tertiary-level Education offered freely to a larger part of a nation's population ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And China experienced rapid growth, while at the same time things declined in the US due to the recession. There are still vast swaths of the country, rural areas and the former manufacturing region in the Rust Belt, that have not really recovered.

    Why would we think that "Progress" is always a good thing. (Of course it depends what type of progress)

    For one thing, "moving into the Information Age" does not necessitate leaving behind the Industrial Age. What is able to work for some cities in the country is probably not going to be able to work everywhere.
    The country doesn't really need that much "information".

    You know, one of the big gripes precipitating the US Civil War was that American workers in the North were complaining that Slavery in the South was creating unfair competition. That probably was one of the big factors leading to the war.

    Do you think that was an invalid reason?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  8. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't even know where to start ito schools, my kids are completely bored with schoolwork, I imagine just about every other kid in their grade are too.
    I don't know what the answer is... maybe aptitude testing at an early age allowing those who show clear interest to pursue those interests...

    school currently aim to promote "rounder or more general" education, allowing kids who don't know their interests to discover it. The result is not a roadmap to discovery more of a boredom until you hit the jackpot... if you're so lucky.
     
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AN AGING POPULATION

    As an advanced country, there is not that much left of the Industrial Age in America or Europe.

    From the BLS here:
    *Percentage of Americans working in "Goods-producing, excluding agriculture" is 12.8%.
    *Percentage working in "Services-providing excluding special industries" is 80.2%
    *This expansion reflects an annual growth rate of 0.5 percent, which is slower than the 2008–18 annual growth rate of 0.8 percent.

    And I'll bet most of that 12.8% is in automotive manufacturing.

    Also quoted from the BLS (in pdf): EMPLOYMENT PROJECTIONS — 2018-2028

     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  10. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Most drugs, medical devices and key production is done by China we depend on now that's biting us in the rear we must bring manufacturing home just for strategic reasons Trump is right on that. So my bet manufacturing these will be done here once this mess is over. Also we have a shortage in workers in the building trades of all kinds thee jobs can't be outsourced and pay well. People miss a proper carpenter or bricklayer or electrician earn more than many college graduates and could get a good head start in secondary school to do these jobs. And work to be a contractor then make serious money.
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    QUO VADIS?

    There is little doubt that major-changes to our work- and life-style will be made in large quantity by the Internet.

    This BLS-comment above thus bears some attention. Note that IT DOES NOT SAY a diminution of labor-productivity. It shows that the US is getting back to "normal". But the Manufacturing Industry is not the major employer in the US - or the EU either. The major employer has become Service Industries.

    Which means what?

    I suggest this:
    *Physically doing your shopping at red-brick stores in your neighborhood is fast becoming "old-hat".
    *More and more Americans will get used to shopping online and taking their cars to be packed with bags of food at a central distribution point.
    *Better yet if they could get the goods-shipped directly to their residence.
    *Where possible, online interaction to purchase services will prove far more efficient than waiting at someone's office to see them in person.

    We have (and will continue to) become an Online-population Economy. Which is goodness, because it is far more efficient than being "off-line". What would help, instead of thousands of people going to supermarkets, is to shop online and have their purchases delivered to their residence. They could thus "shop" far more efficiently* ...

    *Yes, ladies, I know! Nobody can try on a dress and prance in front of a mirror before purchasing! ;^)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  12. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Unless your poor and can't get online say you can only afford a landline with dial-up or like I have Telephobia I won't talk on the phone. The new tech did me little good most interaction with my medical insurer is by phone not e-mail or texting or even snail mail even though the ADA on paper would demand accommodation but other choices.
     
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's the argument "We've come this far, so it's too late to turn back now".

    It's a pretty weak argument.


    That's also somewhat of a logical fallacy.

    Experts have predicted something, therefore that is what we should resign ourselves to.

    You do realize that those predictions are in large part based on the status quo and what the current laws and trade deals are? So it's sort of a circular logic here. Do you understand?

    Your argument seems to be that we've built up momentum going towards a certain direction, so we should keep on going in that direction.
    It's flawed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  14. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America has at present a good number of people below the Poverty Line (aka "Threshold").

    From the Census Bureau here:
    I suggest that almost 40 million* Americans living in Poverty is nothing about which to be very proud ...

    *That's about the same population as the state of California.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, only 12% of the American workforce is found in Industry-jobs.

    Pretty weak! Right!

    Go tell that to the Bureau of Labor Statistics! Go ... !
     
  16. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    After the Crona mess you think we can trust China holding key sectors by the balls like drugs, medical equipment and supplies and needed technologies plus rare Earth metals face it we need these back home meaning factory jobs.
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, but its OK if companies in America did that?

    Factory-jobs have been reduced to only 12% of all work in the US. (Presuming you mean the US.) If the jobs fled to southeast-Asia (including China) it was because AMERICAN buyers found the prices of American-made goods too expensive. In fact, that phenomenon has NOT taken place in the Services Industries. Whyzzat?

    Because in the Services Industries the US remains comparatively competitive. And one more lesson about competitivity:
    *If it costs $14K a year to get a Postgraduate Degree in the US, then other countries with almost free Postgraduate Degree Tuition will be highly-competitive in terms of labor-costs.
    *Meaning whatever products/services areas in which they work will also turnout lower costs products/services.
    *That is already-happening for some product-technologies that are now being fabricated in Mexico and/or Canada!

    There has been also a trend of moving Corporate Headquarters abroad toward far lower corporate-taxation countries. See here: 10 iconic US companies that have left America

    The marketplace has become highly global and no one country has a corner on production anymore. And most certainly Not the USofA ...

    PS: The factory-jobs have long-since high-tailed it to Mexico and China since the 1990s. They aint comin' back because American customers wont pay the comparatively higher prices for "Made in USA"! Meaning what? If you want a good-job, get a postsecondary degree to find it! (At a state-school, that's going to cost an average $14K a year. Not all families can afford that and most certainly not the poorest!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's still higher than the percentage of retail sales that is online.
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see you're applying a different argument to poverty than you are to factory jobs.

    "Factory jobs are only 12%, so that's just the way the economy is"

    Yeah, why don't you try applying that same argument to poverty?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both measure economic criteria that relate to employment. But differently.

    You're the one making a mountain-out-of-a-mole-hill ...!
     
  21. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    This plague showed we cannot risk or trust overseas suppliers they will put their own first much key sector manufacturing needs to return home including pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, medical supplies and other vital areas we have to incentivize that and yes demand companies do this.
     
  22. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WHY?

    What you cannot trust is sites like eBay and Alibaba, that will sell you the masks, and then (after you've paid) tell you that there is a three/four week wait for delivery (because they ship from China).

    In three weeks without a mask you could have caught the disease!

    And even with one, one must also be careful to obtain the mask that specifically does not allow entry of the Covid-19 infection. We have China to thank for the 2002–2004 SARS outbreak that killed 774 worldwide.

    After the SARS outbreak 18-years ago why weren't countries stockpiling anti-Carona masks? Huh? Why ... ?

    WHICH MASK?

    This one (from a seemingly impartial site linked here): 3M N95 respirator

    Caveat: All the above is what I have culled from the Internet. Like you probably, I am not a professional! All the above is simply suggestive!
     

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