A history of the teamwork FDR built to remake a world

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by (original)late, May 18, 2022.

  1. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    In No Ordinary Time, historian Doris Kearns Goodwin builds a narrative on how FDR did what he did. It all comes down to relationships, to teamwork.

    It started with Eleanor.

    Because FDR was a cripple, she became his eyes, ears and legs. No president can spend much time looking into what is actually going on. But Eleanor was almost compulsive about doing just that. FDR taught her how to do it, she was a political neophyte. She wound up one of the most influential Dems in the country, even decades after the death of FDR.

    Nixon was surprised by his 1960 loss to JFK. JFK had been in trouble, and Eleanor refused to endorse him. But he agreed to spend time and effort looking out for the little guy. She endorsed him late in the campaign, and that was why he won.

    I've only read the first chapter. It's more of a traditional history book than I usually read. But it's exceptional, and I am enjoying it.

    "Doris Kearns Goodwin’s “No Ordinary Time: Franklin & Eleanor Roosevelt: The Home Front in World War II” was published in 1994 and won the Pulitzer Prize for History in 1995.
    This 636 page book is meticulously researched, fact-filled and essentially a hybrid literary construct: it is part history text and part dual-biography (of FDR and his wife Eleanor).

    Overall, though, Doris Kearns Goodwin’s “No Ordinary Time” is a compelling review of one of the most compelling and important First Couples in our nation’s history. It is not a consistently easy, colorful or comprehensive treatment of FDR’s life. But most fans of Franklin or Eleanor Roosevelt will find this book little short of outstanding."

    https://bestpresidentialbios.com/20...in-eleanor-roosevelt-by-doris-kearns-goodwin/
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  2. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    FDR was our greatest leader in the office, which was why he was re-elected four times. Well worth reading about. He had flaws, we all do. but he knew how to pick people, mostly, the primary skill a leader needs.
     
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  3. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight, it would have been better if Nixon had won, imo, for a number of reasons.He was by far the smarter man, and wouldn't have been the bitter man he was in 1968 at that time.
     
  4. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    He was kicked to the curb for a reason, he didn't deserve the job.
     
  5. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    It should be understood that FDR vision for the world after WW2 in fact failed almost completely ( big four cooperation, democracy in eastern Europe etc ). He was not capable to understand the danger of international communism and was dilusional about it.

    Churchill in Fulton speech correctly explained the New reality, while negative effects of FDR mismanaged policy were still much in effect. Things were repaired only with Korean war when USA cold war strategy became more realistic.
     
  6. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol JFK was worse, no morals, no qualifications other than Daddy was a major Democratic power.
     
  7. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol rubbish. It was Churchhill who begged FDR to supply the Soviets in the first place, and the 'Cold War' was a continuation of the US's long term policy trend to de-colonize the planet and create independent nation-states and free trade; containing Soviet and Red Chinese expansion was the same policy with a different focus, since the colonial powers had already acceded to US demands to de-colonize their empires. His arrogance in believing he could manipulate Stalin was a flaw, but since he died at the time he did there is no reason to believe that delusion would have been a continuing one if he had lived, not with Stilwell and Keenan around. As it was, the continuing policies bankrupted the Soviets and ended the Kruschev Doctrine in 1973, and the US provided a 'soft landing' for the collapse of the Soviet Union without a major war, except for a brief revival of the Communist hardliners popularity caused by Saint Moron Reagan running his idiotic mouth and sabotaging Gorbachev's agendas.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  8. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    Historians rank JFK at 5th or 6th. You can drop Nixon 20 points down lower..

    My personal take is JFK doesn't belong in the top 10, and Nixon should still be about 20 points lower than JFK. He really did do a LOT of damage.
     
  9. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    What damage? It would have been a different story on 1960, especially re the way the Civil Rights bills would have been treated; he would have shut down the GOP sabotages cold. Viet Nam would have been handled better, too; Kennedy held back, Nixon wouldn't have.
     
  10. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Roosevelt and containment of communism are two oposite things. Only Truman started with containment of communism in Europe, but continued with the mismanaged policy of Roosevelt in China and far east until Stalin and Mao with the help of Kim started Korean war.

    Because of Roosevelt and his foreign policy št least China and Czechoslovakia were Lost and Greece would be too, but Churchill intervened.
     
  11. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    You could write a book about that.

    You could try a biography but historians are slow to figure some things out.

    But I will give you an example. The far Right thought the CIA was screwing up, I forget the so called reasons why. And at this point, it doesn't matter.

    Nixon created Team B. He brought in a bunch of incompetents to review the work of the CIA.

    Each review level in the CIA added about 10% to their estimates. Team B added 20%...

    So every Russian was 10 feet tall, ate bars of iron for breakfast and shat bullets. A few years later we got one of their super jets from a defector, and it sucked. A lot.

    On paper, it was good. In reality, go over 60% power and it could kill you before someone else got the chance. The electronics were no match for ours. Repeat that a dozen times...

    It had real world consequences. Nixon negotiated with the Russians from what he thought was a weak position, and gave them too much.

    Classic Republican, politics uber alles...
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  12. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are quite a few folks who have made a very strong case that absent the election fraud in IL, specifically Chicago, Nixon would have been president. But hey, you have an opinion too.... Eleanor doesn't hold a candle to the power of Daily and or Garcetti and his outfit.
     
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  13. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    It fashionable now to bash both FDR and Nixon, by the right especially, for some reason. It's amazing how so many 'historians' can be 100% wrong in hindsight. Ideological fantasies warp a lot of people's ability to look at big pictures and see reality.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  14. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Concerning JFK he was more realistic about the danger of communism than Roosevelt who was really a complete disaster in this field. He helped to end the mismanaged foreign policy of Roosevelt and Truman ( in the far east ) in fact.

    But on the other hand in Vietnam he felt to create an United anticommunist front and was involved in the military coup against president Diem. One could say that Diem himself destroyed what he achieved before also with USA support under Eisenhower, with his to much catholic agenda. This is in part true. However as Truman rejected Diem most unwisely, JFK support for military coup is much questionable too.

    During cold war of course you could not choose Just completely good guys for your allies but sometimes also bad once were needed against such gigantic and Strong evil as it was international communism. We should understand this also today to value cold war properly. Also in WW2 not just democratic forces were used against axis forces but all kind of allies were used.
     

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