So, this has popped up a few times in the thread of late, and I was wondering what atheists think of it? "They do not worship a living deity. Members are Agnostics or Atheists." http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm I am curious as to what atheists think about having Satanists not just claiming the mantel of atheism, but of being active within its organizations? What does that mean for many of the more acerbic attacks found in atheist propoganda? Does it lead you to question whether the author arrived at this conclusion because it is from a genuine belief in no God - or is it the result of genuine hatred and animosity toward religion that flows from Satanism, a hatred with little or no care for relevant facts? Are there any mechanisms within the atheist community to keep it free from malicious influences like Satanism?
Buddhists are also technically atheists but no atheists worry about 'infiltration' of Buddhists. What would they have to infiltrate anyway? Unfortunately the world isnt neatly divided between atheists and theists. You can be an atheist and yet hold otherwise completely different beliefs to another atheist. Same goes for theism.
Well, it is no doubt that Satanists claim the mantel of Atheism: http://www.dpjs.co.uk/true.html "2. LaVey's True Satanism LaVey described adherents of his own atheistic, philosophical activist Satanism as True Satanists. I think that in the case of Anton LaVey alone he was qualified to lay claim to the term "True", as he was indeed the founder of Satanism, even though some before had partially similar outlooks none claimed that term or even used it."
So-called Satanism is atheism for provocateurs. Why would an atheist want to be called a satanist? For no other reason than that it makes people who believe in satan cringe.
But honestly you don't deserve a fair treatment. How is your comment about "atheist propaganda" not acerbic? When you stop being a hypocrite and a bully, then you might gain some trust from me.
The thing is the atheists we can make fun of many beliefs, and say yes we are satanists, we are pastafarians or we believe in the Pink Unicorn, whatever. Just it is to make fun of unfounded beliefs. It is to show how is absurd believe in something imposible to prove. And the hatred to religion isn't real, of many atheists. But religion is seen as something dangerous for freedom of the people. It is a chain in the progress. The religious refuse many science advances, like anti-conceptive technics,... Religion is a problem of the advance of the societies, just we can see how live the muslim, all their problems are just thanks to religion, religion wants inculture, so they fight the culture. For that the advance of society inside a religious society is impossible.
If you do not believe in god, you do not believe in his even more ridiculous archenemy either. Atheists claiming to be satanists are just doing it for the shock value. What propaganda? I've never seen any. I guess you'd consider a billboard saying "We don't believe in god, and you don't have to either," an example of 'atheist propaganda.
Ritualized atheism? Does anyone really consider that to be atheism? The church of satan is simply an attention whore.
Yep, a bunch of attention whores. Basically Objectivism + ritual. I actually don't mind ritual, I quite enjoy it. I got invited to a "Satanic" party once and attended out of curiosity. Tip: if you are going to ramble on and on about the virtue of self-indulgence, don't serve me flat, light beer in a Dixie cup. I've never seen them kicked out of any atheist organization I was involved with, but I've never seen them welcomed either.
That would be because Buddhists do not call themselves atheists in public. The are Buddhists. They go to places like Temples, they have monks, etc. A published doctrine, that, if it showed up in atheist circles, people would recognize it. Satanists call themselves atheists. Consider themselves atheists. Their beliefs are, in many cases, quite similiar to atheism. THey participate in atheist communities as atheists ... and, unforunately, some of their piblished doctrine CAN and IS found on many atheist forums. Is that a good thing?
http://www.atheists.org/religion http://www.positiveatheism.org/ http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutatheism/Atheism_Atheists_Agnosticism_and_Agnostics.htm Allright, can't bring myself to take a dig at my own faith just to prove a point. The idea that there is nothing out there that pushes atheist ideas and agendas is silly. Atheists use that stuff ALL the time (they just never claim they are even when they make the same arguements indicating indoctrination). Now, how much of that is from Satanists masqarading as atheists? Can you or would you kick a Satanist out of an atheist organization? After all, the devil is not real either is he?
LeVayan Satanists aren't masquerading. They are actually atheists. The don't believe in Satan as a literal, personal being. He is only symbolic for them. I've only been in two atheists organizations, and only one where a Satanist attended. As with anyone else, as long as they are not disrupting the meetings and/or proselytizing, they are welcome. There have been far, far more Christians that have attended our meetings than Satanists. In our last meeting a member started praising Social Darwinism (something common amongst Satanists). She was not kicked out, but she did not look like she would feel comfortable attending again.
Well, that is indeed part of what they say. They also have something called a smash on site list, and a bunch of rituals. Once again, they claim (publically at least) that Satanism is not based on the Christian concept of Satan. Having met a few former Satanists, I think I will take their word that it is BS. I will also take them at their word that the forces that they dabbled with did not just let them walk away. And those guys? Yep, they are all over atheist organizations. Do you believe their lies? I somehow doubt that the Christians were there to refine the ideological concepts of atheism. The Satanist was. No doubt the nihilistic diatribes that flow from these groups are cheered on by the Satanists. And the thing is, most Satanists do not publically acknowledge that they are Satanists. And yet it begs the question - what are they doing there? Now contrast that with this: http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/195208-i-beleive-jesus-because.html By the end of that thread a lone atheist is basically made hay out of the historical record, and just as I have often claimed, the standrds get thrown out the window in order to exlcude evidence. Now, most atheists are fairly rational people, most Jesus Mythers, with most things are rational .... until you get the Jesus Myth. The comportment necessary to deny Jesus as a historical personage is simply rediculous. Yet many atheists advocate it anyway. It graces many atheist institutions as if it were fact. Why? Again, by not having a doctrine, atheism leaves itself vulnerable to pernicious outsiders - as Christianity once was. That is why organizations HAVE doctrines (whether they are religious or not). Atheism is a growing organziation, like it or not, and it will face the same challenges as any other organziation. The question, how much of the atheist message is actually Satanism? What part of Satanism is actual and simple belief in no God - and what part is active nihilism driven by Satanic desire? I tell you what yard, teh ferocity of Jesus Mythers and their abject refusal to acknowledge the historical record or the academic process was one of the first things that made me look beyond the mere conclusion that there was just no God driving things like that. If atheism is the natural result of looking out and concluding that there is no God (which is understandable given the evidential record and an honest pursuit) the Jesus Myth is totally disconnected from that logical process and indicates quite a different agenda in mind. I have long said that atheists need to tamp down on the more .... ill intended aspects of atheism, but this one pops out as alarming. Should the voice of atheism become synonymous with Satanism .... that will be a HUGE problem for many atheists whose view have absolutely nothing to do with Satanism. There is a reason that Satanism is reviled the world over. There is a reason that atheism is slipping on the old trust scale, and I do not think it is an accident that the things that cause the most revulsion toward atheists have a striking similarity to the aspects of Satanism that have lead to their distrust.
Maybe there is a secret aspect to it besides what they say publicly. I have no idea. Nor do I care. If I found what they said publicly to be be seductive, or if they had any influence over the organizations that I have been a part of, then maybe I would care. Not around here. Which part? I'm sure they have some things to say that I would agree with. They seem to like individualism, which I like as well, but no, I really don't care much for the vast majority of what they have had to say. Nope. They are there for friendly discussion. Most of them have dreams of converting some of us, but they have been polite about it and have not tried to proselytize. They share their beliefs and contribute to the conversation. A tiny handful showed up and were just there to talk and not listen. They didn't last long. Then he was doing a poor job. Nihilistic diatribes are not very welcome. I have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. Honestly, if I believed it were true, I'd be more concerned about the possibility that they are trying to corrupt religion than non-religion. It only begs the question if we have reason to believe that stealth Satanists are infiltrating atheist discussion groups. I don't really see any reason to believe that. And, given that these groups aren't hierarchical in any way, I don't really see much to worry about. What does any of this have to do with Satanists? I know I have been gone for a while, but if you will remember, I can't stand the Jesus Myth stuff either. It very rarely comes up in any of our discussion group meetings, and I've never been asked to simply accept it as fact. The reason why it is so popular, in my experience, is that atheists quickly become familiar with the concept of the burden of proof and like to apply it when they can. They sometimes fail to understand that the study of history is not as exact as science. The part where they don't believe in god. LaVeyan Satanists are far more committed to narcissism than they are to atheism. There is no question that most of the Jesus Mythers have a lose understanding the academic study of history. I don't see any danger of that. The dominate atheist philosophy, since the advent of New Atheism, has been humanism, and I see no sign of that changing any time soon. Most of the reviling of atheism comes from a lack of education within the reviler, not the influence of Satanism. When people ask me, "If you are an atheist, where do your morals come from" it is because they honestly don't know, not because Satanists have gotten to them.
So that the atheists could have their own deity that they know (intellectually) is opposed to (warring against) God.
Based on all that you have stated above, it sounds as though the 'atheists' (if organized into a collective) would be a very confused and unstable organization. Y'all need to work on that teamwork concept a little bit.
Buddhists also consider themselves atheist. And, by the way, atheists like me dont care about Satansim. We're not all fearful of it like you Christian scardy cats because, guess what, Satan doesnt exist.
If your stated use of the word "it" means to give reference to Satanism, then you are terribly mistaken in suggesting that Christians are "scardy cats" with regard to Satanism. Do you have any scripture that would indicate to you that Christians are 'fearful' of Satanism? If not, then you are speaking through a condition of ignorance of the subject matter.
You'd think that they would be somewhat fearful of people who praise and follow their ultimate enemy. Not that I imagine Christians running away in the face of Satanists but you'd think they'd harbour a respectable amount of fear. And, if they dont believe that Satanism is a problem, why has this issue (in the OP) been raised?
Perhaps 'YOU' might think such a thing, but your thinking is not necessarily the same 'thinking' that a Christian would entertain. It appears that the issue of Satanism was raised in the OP to show the relationship between Atheism and Satanism. I don't recall the subject of 'fear' by or through Christians being a part of that OP.
Perhaps you could educate me on such matters then. Why dont Christians fear the spread of Satanism or consider Satanism a problem?
Not attempting to speak for other Christians on this point, but only from my own perspective: I view Satanism as nothing more than another misguided search for God. When someone is given a hope of finding God in a way that would sustain his/her own desires from this temporal world, it makes it real easy to go with the flow and join those that are on a similar search trajectory. That trajectory being based on what ever pleases the physical senses. Therefore, I recognize that when a Satanist REALIZES that his/her search pattern is in vain and is getting him/her nowhere, then that same Satanist will alter his/her search pattern by acquiring more efficient technology that will keep him/her on the straight and narrow path. In other words, Satanism is nothing more than a FAD that is designed to allow a person to live out his/her 'sensuous' nature. Which nature will necessarily forsake anything else. There are other reasons, more metaphysical than what would be appropriate within the context of this forum, which I WILL NOT discuss with you or anyone else except my Christian brothers and sisters on this forum. Secrets,,, ??? Yes! Only for the initiated. "Greater is He that is within me than he that is in the world."
Good for you. There is obviously a distinct difference between your opinion and what I have stated. Congratulations on confirming my sentiments.
