This is the ugly fact. Read the statistics if you don't agree. I like women, so I don't encourage abortion. http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html
That's right: abortion is a female rights issue — half those fetuses being denied rights and brutally violated are female fetuses! While social progressives raise bloody hell about the slightest little human rights violations in other countries, they don't like to bring up the inconvenient issue of all those girl babies and gender selective abortions in China and India. We are talking MILLIONS of unborn girls every year! Where is your outrage, pro-abortion supporters ?
The only way to dramatically decrease sex selective abortion is to change these societies views on females. Once these societies stop seeing daughters as a burden then they will more than likely stop having sex selective abortions.
Women have a right and a choice to abort based on gender if they would like. However I agree it will become a serious problem for these countries if they continue on this route. There will be a huge skew between males and females in probably only a few decades. They must address their cultural views on females and change that to solve this problem. Why is it that China and India view daughters as burdens? Why aren't we asking these questions? Why aren't we trying to change this? Instead you just want to put a band-aid on the problem and instead of changing their anti-female views you just wish to make abortion illegal and harm even more women and take away more of their rights. So not only will they continue to be hated and persecuted by the society they live in they will also lose the right to control their own reproductive organs. Sounds like you just want to add to the problem if you ask me.
Really? Is that how progressive supporters of abortion feel? Then why do you all try to force all their other views on everyone else? No, this is pure hypocrisy what you are saying. You want one set of values to apply to abortion, but a very different set of values to apply to everything else. You can't have it both ways. If you want the woman to be the one to decide whether the fetus lives or dies, the citizens should be the ones to decide whether they carry around a gun with them or not, whether they want to use "energy efficient" light bulbs or not, whether or not they want to "discriminate" when the hire another person to work for them. I don't respect your views at all. If you want to force everyone to do everything else so you can try to create a perfect little society, then why should I feel the least bit reluctant about forcing women not to commit murder? Obviously this argument doesn't apply to Libertarians, but how many abortion supporters are actually Libertarian?
It's very easy to sit here and judge another person with other circumstances. What happens when you are faced with the situation these other women find themselves in? There are many factors that go into abortion. It's not all moral ineptitude and callous disregard for life. That's the cartoon version. If you want to champion pro-life, then why don't you get up, go to China, Africa, or wherever, and stand up in front of a tank. Then you will see what conditions women are up against over here. Try throwing all your money in the garbage, getting a (*)(*)(*)(*)ty job, and then getting pregnant and wondering how you are going to feed it. Perhaps it's not the best thing to get pregnant, but honestly, people make mistakes. No one is perfect. The key here is empathy instead of hostile moral superiority. I'm not saying there are not trash women out there. I am saying that it's probably not the majority and in either situation, forcing a woman to bear a child seems counter to this whole "freedom" thing.
Usually it's a feeling of desperation. Often people make bad decissions when they're acting out of desperation. Maybe they shouldn't be trusted to make the best decissions for themselves or their fetus at this critical time. Yes, I think the world would be better off with more empathy. How much empathy are these women showing to their unborn fetuses?
You do realize that article is about Infanticide and not Abortion, right? The difference is that Abortion is a matter of not having a child, and Infanticide is typically directed towards females because in places like Rural China, A girl is another mouth to feed, while a boy is more help on the farm. That coupled with that in Western, Judeo-Christian influenced, culture, we've placed a high value on the lives of every single human... And in China, this is not the case.
I don't force my beliefs on anyone, I allow people to make their own choices. I will however fight against people like you who wish to force YOUR controlling beliefs on others through law. I don't want any sets of 'values' to apply to abortion. I want every woman to be free to control and determine what is right for their own physiological and psychological wellbeing. A.K.A. allow them to make their own free choices about their OWN freaking UTERUSES! First off I have no idea wtf you're talking about with guns/light bulbs etc. That, as far as I am concerned has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Do NOT ASSume that I want to force people to carry or not carry weapons, or to use whatever light bulbs they want to. I could seriously care less about such things. Sex selective abortion is only a small indicator of a real much larger problem these countries face which is a deeply prejudiced viewpoint on females. Again, if YOU would like to see a dramatic decrease in sex selective abortions in these countries then you must first change their cultural views on females. Why is that so hard for you to discuss? Every time I mention the fact that these countries are simply prejudiced and hateful of daughters altogether you evade and dodge and throw out pointless nonsense about light bulbs or whatever else you want to whine about liberals. I seriously do not care what you respect because you do not respect women or their rights to make choices that directly affect their medical health and their personal lives. Again you are projecting your skewed beliefs about liberals onto me. I am not a liberal. I am a Libertarian. I believe in free choice, that includes people choosing whatever light fixtures they want for their home or being free to carry a weapon and running their businesses how they like, etc. Stop making assumptions. It is making you look foolish. Most of them actually. Do you know what Libertarians believe in?
A six-month baby doesn't just appear in the uterus out of nowhere, you know. If the women makes the choices and allows the fetus to get to that point, I think she should lose entitlement to absolute control over the uterus. By that point, we can make the argument that it's as much the baby's uterus now as it is hers.
As far as prolife arguements go: There are some good arguments and some bad ones. I think yours ranks pretty low.
be patient grasshopper - there are already far more young men than women and many men will never find a bride - this will empower women as they have never been empowered before in China They are about to live in interesting times
This is based on the continuing fallacy regarding late term abortions. When challenged about this previously you have supplied statistics for second term abortions but a foetus that is six months old is THIRD trimester and those abortions are rare - and overwhelmingly done for foetal abnormality incompatible with life
Some people use their right to abortion to selectively not breed female children? Let's ban guns because some people use that right to kill actual living people, if anything that's far more serious, I'd assume even pro-lifers would agree with that! Point in case: some people using a right for abhorrent purposes doesn't mean you should outlaw its use for legitimate purposes. I usually get annoyed when people paste "strawman" everywhere, but in this case the term is actually spot on. You don't deal with the actual issue of a woman's right to choose for legitimate purposes, you just knock down the use of abortion for the purposes of selective breeding and hell claim that you've shown abortion should be illegal in all cases. That's not how logic works. Sorry.
You are ONCE AGAIN! evading and avoiding the actual topic here which is sex selective abortion. Address this please. Anders, why is it so difficult for you to address the actual topic at hand?
Except that's nothing short of insane. The fetus has no consciousness. It has no desires, no personality, no memory, no anything. It's only claim is that it is alive, and that claim does not trump a woman's right to control her own body. I always find it sad that people spend vast amounts of money and effort trying to save the unborn when there are even larger amounts of people already here, who already have needs. Yes yes, I'm sure I'm a monster because I think it's makes a buttload more sense to help those already alive and in this world, but that's how I feel. It's the practical sensical thing to do. Fighting battles over a fetus, and in the process doing something completely asinine and completely wrong like telling a woman her body is no longer hers when she's pregnant(seriously, how is this argument even able to be put forth with a straight face), is a huge huge huge waste of resources, but sadly, the pro-life movement is really only concerned with you if you're surrounded by amniotic fluid. After that, you're on your own, and ya better get ya bootstraps!
Well, gendercide seems the norm in the two most populous countries in the world: India, and China. Maybe their massive numbers are just throwing off the statistics everywhere.
