Do you believe animal cruelty laws should apply to unborn animals? (You are aware they do horrific testing on unborn animals inside their mothers wombs in research labs)
Aninals do not have the same rights as humans. I actually do not think animals have any rights, however, I do believe it is immoral - and sometimes evil - to cause an animal harm solely for the sake of causing it harm.
Should this dictum apply to fetuses as well, and if so, why? (I mean, if it were really a part of the woman's body, don't you think she should get the decision to inflict harm on herself?) Can a woman choose to inflict unbearable agony and suffering on her fetus, just for the sake of causing agony and suffering? Should that be her right?
Are you okay with women intentionally getting pregnant for satanic sacrifices, only to kill the fetus in ritualized abortions? (I do have a story about that actually happening)
Yes, causing a fetus harm solely for the sake of causing it harm is immoral. However, abortion is not causing a fetus harm solely for the sake of causing it harm. Sure, there might indeed be a mentally disturbed, pregnant woman somewhere (at least hypothetically) who finds pleasure in harming her fetus and that is very, very cruel. Immoral does not mean illegal. It is legal to have an abortion, but one can have an abortion for immoral reasons. For example, not having an abortion when you do want one would be immoral. Similarly, having kids when you don't want kids is too, but being a parent is still legal.
Should the woman be punished for it, or should that be her legal right? Is it also likewise equally immoral to cause suffering to oneself only for the sake of suffering? I think you do have to recognize here that the fetus is not exactly the same as the woman's body.
That would be an immoral abortion. Yes. I am sure there are also religious women who, intentionally do not have an abortion because their God demands them to sacrfice their liberty to that of the fetus. This is messed up too.
I have not thought about that too much and have to say I do not have an answer to give. Yes, like carrying out a pregnancy you do not want No one has said they are the same.
I don't know. What do you think? This is way, way, way off topic. Unless you have an "awesome KO" to come with in which case; this is the time to do it. We need to get back on topic.
It seems you are okay sacrificing a fetus for the sake of a woman's sex life, but less okay if it is done for the sake of a religious sacrifice. Why is that? It seems you recognize (on some level) that the woman doesn't truly have carte blanche inherent rights to do whatever so she pleases, but can only kill for the sake of a something that you believe to be worthwhile, in this case her sex life. If, hypothetically, the reason of recreational sex did not exist in relation to the issue of abortion, I bet you would be a lot more hesitant to hold the stance that you do on this. Tell me, if, hypothetically, the only reason that women ever got abortions was because they had intentionally got pregnant for the sake of performing a religious sacrifice, would you still hold the position you do on this, that it should be her right?
The woman who has an abortion "for the sake of her sex life" (not that that ever is the driving reason) is not making a sacrifice and she is being rational. She can have an abortion for any reason she may have. No. Yes, but it would be immoral.
Wait there just a minute, let's back this up. I'm saying she started making the decision to "make a sacrifice" when she had sex, knowing she was probably going to get an abortion if the dice of chance didn't go in her favor.
How is that a sacrifice and how is that even what is happening? It is either; "This is the love of my life and I want to share something very beautiful and intimate with him" or "this guy is hot and I am going to bang him." A sacrifice would be to give up on the love/attraction to do something she really hates because she hates it.
The woman is being tricked and manipulated by invisible dark spiritual forces into carrying out a sacrifice, wasn't that sort of the premise of this thread?
A sacrifice is to surrender a greater value for a lesser one. Unwillingness to be a mother and choosing to terminate a pregnancy is thus not a sacrifice. If the same woman, however, chooses to be a mother, she is making a sacrifice. A sacrifice is to give up that which you value in favour of that which you don't.
What? How? Do you always have to put me in a situation where all I can do is reply in single senteces? Can't you ever elaborate to present a full and complete case which I can fully adress?
Sacrifices are regardless of the relative value of factors gained and willingly lost. seems like a totally asinine argument to me.
