About Socialism

It already is owned by the government. That's why it isn't natural. Claiming that City water works is a natural monopoly is like arguing that stainless steel is created by nature.

 

An ignorant comment. Natural monopolies are typically owned by government as a means to minimise market failure.

Talking economics to right wingers is like watching paint dry

 

Talking economics and reality to leftist is like beating your head against a brick wall, sometime after you stop the pain goes away. Natural would be existing without human agency, government is human agency writ large

 

I haven't referred to any left wing ideology. I've referred to a simple understanding of the cost curve for utilities. Reality is beyond you.

 

I am talking strictly about the use of the word 'natural' to describe a government run monopoly. It's not about whether or not it's good or bad it is solely about the idea that such a thing should be called natural.

 

The natural refers to the cost curve, itself reflecting economies of scale such that multiple firms cannot exist and make profit. Basic economics.

 

Not true, the opposite happens all the time in the private sector when the government stays out.

 

Most industries aren't characterised by 'natural monopoly'. Bit bleedin obvious really. You're arguing against the reality of a firm's cost curve. Exceedingly silly, but isn't that the right wing way?

 

That also includes capitalist systems dependent on regulation to legitimize private property through legal systems, the use of fiat currencies, etc.

 

Fiat currencies are not capitalist.

 

Correct. Assuming one defines natural as it is defined in the ecological movement.

 

Correct. That would be a function of our current neofascist governing paradigm.

 

They are needed by capitalists, together with legal systems for legitimizing private property, limited liability, contracts, and more.

 

There is no other definition of "natural".

 

Actually, democracies, too.

 

No, they're not. Real money would serve as well or better.

 

Neofascism is an economic system in which governments control but do not own outright the means of production. The form of the government doesn't matter any sort of government from pure democracy to totalitarian can employ it.

 

No monopoly has ever existed without the help of government.

Correct. Because capitalism is the only economic model where the means of production are owned privately it requires no government to operate. Dispute resolution can be handled within the marketplace and money can be privatized.

 

That would be the point.

 

Fiat currency requires a state. Legal systems do not.

 

The amount of real money, i.e., backed by gold and silver, is small: a few troy oz per person worldwide. The amount of money needed by capitalists, especially those engaged in competition, is far larger. This does not even include capitalists who earn through financial speculation.

 

Neofascism is not an economic but political system. That's why even democracies use fiat currencies.

 

That's because capitalist systems require governments.

Actually, no. That's why there's state capitalism and mixed economies.

Also, there is no currency that's privatized except play money.

 

Actually, legal systems are part of government.

 

Wrong. Please tell me what part of the following phrase does not apply to every government in western Europe and the English speaking world: The façade of private property is maintained but every thing is subject to an ever more draconian and comprehensive set of rules and regulations.