Aksyonov accuses the USA of organizing water blockade of Crimea.

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by zoom_copter66, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I hope so.
     
  2. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    It's called BS excuse for interfering in the internal politics of a foreign country.
     
  3. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying your comment reflected Russian propaganda, not that you were specifically justifying their military attack.
    Hitler had single digit support before the Great Depression hit Germany. It was the economic downturn that put the Nazis in power.
     
  4. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Well-Known Member

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    You should study up on the history of Crimea and Ukraine. And while you're at it, give Kosovo a look too. You can't preach freedom and democracy and then turn around and be a hypocrite. Besides, without Russia there would be no Ukraine in the first place.
     
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I taught history. Kosovo is another matter.
    Hypocritical about what? Russia interfered with the internal politics of the Ukraine. Is the Ukraine a great country? Nope. Does the majority Russian population of Crimea prefer to live in Russia? Probably. Does that give Russia the right to interfere? No.
    "What if" history?
     
  6. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Well-Known Member

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    Just go ahead and gloss over the fact that Crimea: 1. was never legally part of Ukraine and there was a treaty that settled that issue, 2. Crimea declared Independence along with all the other CIS countries in 1991, and 3. Ukraine marched into independent Crimea a couple of years later and forcibly occupied them, revoking their independence.

    The second time they declared independence, they decided to become part of Russia, AGAIN, so the Ukies couldn't oppress them any longer. And, of course, Russia's economy is hands down better than Ukraine's....and they get to speak their native language.

    I suspect the people in Crimea would have a middle finger for your post. It's not our damn business. I may be there in a couple of weeks, maybe I'll ask.

    And no, Kosovo doesn't get a special pass.....

    Taught history? :roflol: Did you learn it from the BBC and CNN?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  7. SovietChild

    SovietChild Active Member

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    What about attacking weak countries who have lots of oil like Iraq? Is that disgusting, as well? By the way, if you want to talk about neighbors and what's disgusting, the most criminal region in the world is America's back yard - central America. Rates of crime in Guatemala are very high. An average of 101 murders per week were reported in 2018. According to you, though, attacking your neighbor would be disgusting and if that's so America would have to let it go even if it ultimately brings greater peace to the region.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Non sequitur. You were comparing my avatar to aggression waged by a stronger country against a weaker one.
    Yes. The U.S. should not have started the Iraq War in 2003.
    No, the most criminal regions of the world are those with oppressive governments.
     
  9. SovietChild

    SovietChild Active Member

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    American police officers are known to be the most oppressive police in the world. 25% of total prison population is in America. Americas is the most criminal region in the world.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Absurd. I live part of the year outside the United States and travel the world extensively. I'm not a big fan of how U.S. police behave, but they are better than police in many countries.
    Different matter. America jails far too many people for far too long, especially for drug offenses.
     
  11. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    To know "zoomie"
    is to know "zoomie".
    Feed him and he comes back for more
    and without meaningful dialog.
    Witness and know too.
     
    ArchStanton likes this.
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Governments lie. They lie more often than they tell the truth. All governments. No exceptions.
     
  13. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Russian version of Crimean history? How come you breezed past the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances? I'm sure a lot of people on the forum could be duped by your BS because they don't know the history of the region.
    Who said anything about Kosovo getting a "special pass?" You're making up stuff to go along with your red herring. Kosovo has nothing to do with Crimea.
    Yeah, and I'm calling your bluff. Where did you get your history? The Kremlin?

    So, what's your biggest criticism of Russia? The undemocratic nature of the government?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  14. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    A lie.

    Another lie.

    Another lie.
     
  15. SovietChild

    SovietChild Active Member

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    We are what we repeatedly do, as Aristotle once said.
     
  16. Tofiks

    Tofiks Active Member

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    You read this law? Maybe you can bring parts of this law, where there are declaration that Ukraine is for Ukrainians? And how does law, who was declared in 2019. affected situation in 2014? Some kind of time machine is involved here? And how does it come, that even the president of Ukraine - Zelensij, mostly speak in Russian?

    Which "people of Crimeria and Donbas"? Russian army soldiers without signs of identification? And why crimerinas and those who live in Donbas should be against Ukrainian language? What is wrong with this language?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  17. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Too many questions.
    Firstly I didn't say that it is literally said in the ukrainian law. No. So far not.
    Secondly the development of 'language issue' has become a part of political reality for Ukraine long before the 2014. Every 'orange' pro-western political party was taking about the interests of ukrainian language. Their opponents talked about the introduction of russian language as a second official. This question was talked before every election to get votes of west and south east. In fact most of ukrainian citizens still speak russian much better than ukrainian. But ukrainian law forces them to lose opportunities and stick to ukrainian, which is far from democracy.
    It's true that even the Maidan party which stole the power from Yanukovich and being extremely anti-russian had to speak russian in order to understand each other. But it doesn't reflect any freedom in Ukraine. It shows lies about the language and political motivation for the reforms and laws while reality stays different.

    Ukrainian is not a language of people who live in Donbass and Crimea. It is as easy. If all of a sudden Ukraine makes a law that only english is an official language lots of people would lose their opportunities in life. They will not be able to apply for certain jobs or to get understanding. So nothing is wrong with a language as it is. The wrong approach is to fight with one or more of the languages and to promote a different one.
     
  18. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    There really is no doubt that the west is involved in how things go down in Ukraine.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/13/nato-steps-strategic-ukraine-aid-after-push-trump-/
     
  19. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    That missile that blew up, was a missile that was going to be nuclear powered (not a nuclear warhead). So it can fly around, for decades and can avoid the be shot down by the US. That's a technology that the US hasn't even tried.
     
  21. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Technology was abandoned by the US more than 50 years ago.
     
  22. Tofiks

    Tofiks Active Member

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    So where in state level, we can find the declaration like "Ukraine for ethnic Ukrainians"? Nowhere? But you are saying, that there is such ideology. Seriously?

    So? Interests of Ukrainian language should be ignored or what?

    What "Maidan party"? There is no such party in Ukraine, what are you talking about?

    To which jobs Russians from Crimeria or Donbas cannot apply now or could not do it in 2014? Or again, too much questions to which you even do not know the answer?
    This kind of declarations are ridiculous, because even former president of Ukraine - Janukovich was Russian from Donbass region...
     
  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    you are confusing a missile with a nuclear warhead with a missile with a nuclear propulsion... like a nuclear powered submarine.
     
  24. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Something like your silly comments about some Canadian "conspiracy".....you just can't stop following me ..can you...LOL.
     
  25. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Maidan introduced a number of new political traditions as worshipping Bandera and other collaborants of Hitlerite nazism. There are plenty of popular slogans like 'Glory to Ukraine!' and an answer 'Glory to the heroes!' which used to be a slogan of Bandera - extreme ukrainian nationalist. We have got oppression against the most spread language in the territory of Ukraine, which is still Russian.

    The interests of ukrainian language is to get better establishment. There should be more books, texts, songs etc in ukrainian. At the moment the amount of books published in Ukrainian is less than it used to be under the USSR. So the interest of ukrainian is to expand and develop, but not to restrict the development of other languages.
    It's like a trade war. Of course it is easier for the US to ban XIAOMI to promote Iphones, but in fact it would be better for IPhone to get a cheaper and better model comparing to Xiaomi.

    Political parties in Ukraine are not that stable. I mainly mean the people who are known as Maidan activists.


    State jobs. If a person speaks russian which is understood by his voters he is not allowed to take a job in local government. It was posssible under Yanukovich, Yuschenko, Kuchma and Kravchuk, but is not possible since Maidan color revolution. This is not at all ridiculous, because it primarily separates population of Ukraine and reduces opportunities for the development. If ukrainians had the freedom to use russian language the people would have the opportunity to study using russian scientific and technical literature. It would allow cooperation and better spread of business. It would create a good unity between ukrainian and russian speakers, who are patriots of their country and wish to live and work for it. But it is not planned. The ukrainian of the future is poorly educated cheap labor force for EU, or cannon fodder for civil wars in the territory of Ukraine. This is a poor life. And the slogans with symbols and beliefs are not able to improve this situation.
     

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