An armed society is a paranoid society

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Kellermann performed multivariate analysis to isolate the risk associated with keeping a gun in the home and found it was significant.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  2. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another relevant study:

    "During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides."
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/

    A ratio of 22 misuses of guns to 1 defensive use of a gun is genuinely disturbing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  3. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    31,566
    Likes Received:
    20,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Used in self defense is narrowly defined in that study and does not delineate between LEGAL gun owners and criminals who already violate 18 USC 922 and state laws by merely having the weapons. Suicide is not relevant to a crime control debate
     
    Reality, Wild Bill Kelsoe and Ddyad like this.
  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    31,566
    Likes Received:
    20,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    BTW that Study only included defensive gun uses as when the weapon was fired at an intruder. thus it is completely bogus because MOST DGUs do not involve the citizen actually shooting the criminal

    Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
     
  5. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    9,774
    Likes Received:
    4,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He found it barely over the minimum to be even significant. Fewer than half of the victims were killed by firearms.

    Here are the variables with values high enough to make the list, and their associated risks:

    upload_2022-12-9_11-16-48.png
    "The use of illicit drugs and a history of physical fights in the home are also important risk factors. " Criminals.

    "Underreporting of gun ownership by control respondents could bias our estimate of risk upward. We do not believe, however, that misreporting of gun ownership was a problem."

    Kellermann also looked at just three urban communties, using those to extrapolate data for the population at large.

    "Shelby County, Tennessee; King County, Washington; and Cuyahoga County, Ohio, are the most populous counties in their respective states. "
     
    Reality, Ddyad and Turtledude like this.
  6. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,432
    Likes Received:
    4,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The dude did dumb ****. No sympathy.
     
  7. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2021
    Messages:
    12,298
    Likes Received:
    10,605
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So based on a couple of incidents you come to the grand theory that gun owners are paranoid.
     
    Wild Bill Kelsoe and Ddyad like this.
  8. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The significance level was 95%. There's nothing unusual about that.

    The study found that keeping a gun at home was associated with an increased of risk of homicide by a family member or an intimate acquaintance but there was no increased risk of homicide by acquaintances, unidentified intruders, or strangers. The increased risk of homicide was due to an increased risk of gun homicide. Kellermann performed stratified analyses and found that this held true for several subgroups (blacks, whites, men, women, old people, young people). No evidence of any protective benefit at all was found due to a gun kept in the home: No subgroup was less likely to be murdered due to living in a home where a gun was kept.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  9. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    31,566
    Likes Received:
    20,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Kellerman's "research" has widely been rejected as outcome based nonsense
     
  10. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    22,393
    Likes Received:
    15,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Our bodies, our choice.
     
    roorooroo, Ddyad and Turtledude like this.
  11. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Guns must be trained from conception not to hurt anyone. My guns are very well behaved and have never hurt anyone.
     
  12. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    9,774
    Likes Received:
    4,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did he look strictly at those homes where the firearms were possessed legally?
     
    Reality, roorooroo and Ddyad like this.
  13. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pretty much. When he excluded homes where residents had a history of illegal drug use, prior arrests, or domestic violence he found the increased risk associated with guns still existed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
  14. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm sure it has been widely rejected in your echo chamber.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
  15. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    31,566
    Likes Received:
    20,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's rejected by people who actually research the issue as opposed to clowns who are paid to attack gun ownership and then manufacture findings designed to do that
     
    Reality and roorooroo like this.
  16. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,250
    Likes Received:
    5,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    whjat an inane thread title.
     
    Reality, roorooroo and Turtledude like this.
  17. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    9,774
    Likes Received:
    4,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What would the delta have been if he had included these? Much less of a factor, I'd warrant.

    According to his data, it's still a much smaller risk than renting or living alone.
     
    Turtledude and roorooroo like this.
  18. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    31,566
    Likes Received:
    20,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    what is really amusing is the attitude that anti gun advocates have-they want to deny us gun owners the CHOICE to own guns based on their own =and almost always-ignorant-belief that they know better what is "good" for us than we do for ourselves. But when it comes to other issues, they scream CHOICE.
     
    SiNNiK and AARguy like this.
  19. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    22,393
    Likes Received:
    15,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That risk is our choice to make.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
    Polydectes, SiNNiK and roorooroo like this.
  20. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My guns will be very happy when they see what's under the tree this Christmas... slings, red dot sights, "piggy back" cartridge carriers, lots of high capacity magazines, some great new lubrication products... there will be some happy firearms!
     
  21. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,432
    Likes Received:
    4,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Have you tried Shooter's Lube solvent yet? Stuff works great. They have an oil as well but I tend to use only grease so I haven't tried that yet.
     
  22. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    18,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No real risk it's not like they are radioactive.
     
  23. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not yet, but I will now.
     
    Pollycy and SiNNiK like this.
  24. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People should not be denied the choice to save lives.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
  25. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I assume you mean by stopping an assault (or worse) by holding the perpetrator for the cops at gunpoint.
     

Share This Page