Angela Merkel's German government facing collapse over her immigration policy

Actually they've just thought of another way of dealing with the ageing population problem . . .

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...e-have-another-dr-harold-shipman-here.535578/

It called institutionalised murder, or compulsory euthanasia, take your pick.

 

I hope your alternative reality makes sense in your mind. You clearly are on a different forum.
Show me the threads started by non-Americans in order to bash 'merica.

 

When Theresa May gets the old heave-ho (and it can't be a moment too soon, with the unmitigated dog's dinner she's making of leaving the EU), would you be interested in taking the top job in the good ship Blighty? I'll sponsor you. All you need do is make me Home Secretary, and between us we'll have this country back on its feet before you can say 'Brexit means Brexit'.

 

I have to contradict you almost completely!

First of all, I've learned by now that Conservative in Germany is something completely different than Conservative in the US. What is considered Conservative / Righty in the USA corresponds to and for the very far right wingers, who are already very close to what we as fascist, racist, and finally, call nazi.
And that brings us to the AFD party ...
When the chairman of the AfD party Gauland publicly states that Hitler's 12 years of Nazi rule in Germany, including World War II started by Germany, is no more than an unimportant pile of bird **** in German history, then that says about the ideological attitude of the party everything!

The AfD lives from the problem because of the refugees and that there is displeasure in the German population on the subject, is beyond any question. This was even recognized by the left-wing party (Die Linke, successors to the Communists from the GDR). Only what is the displeasure in detail?
It is not about the reception of refugees from Syria or Northern Iraq fleeing the war, etc., because here despite all humanity still exists in Germany.
No, it is about other refugees, where I also lack the understanding ... for example, the North Africans from Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. These people do not flee because of war, but for economic reasons and then seek asylum, which they are not entitled to - point! And if even bombers like Anis Amri (the attack at Christmas in Berlin) or the Tunisians last week in Cologne on the construction of a biological weapons bomb (ricin poison) could be prevented by a SWAT team mission, then any understanding stops!
And every rest-understanding ended altogether, if these North African countries of origin then refuse to take their people back, or artificially complicate the repatriation. In short - they should not have let them in ... but the problem was and is that they destroy their passports etc. and the identity is unclear (you can not see on their look where they come from!). Therefor must be a solution found - and this not now, but since a long time! If a solution is found here, or generally ceases other small round big BS, then the AfD disappears again in the insignificance where it belongs to!

As for the German military, yes, you're right. Whether it is the current Minister of Defense guilt, I do not even really say, because it is a genrelles problem what has existed for a long time. But apparently some important politicians have become a little more awake ... let's wait and see.
The requirement that Germany fulfills the 2% is correct and I demand that too, but everything else Trump is still saying is mental BS and a total lie and distortion of facts!

As far as the infrastructure is concerned, America has to behave very small and quiet. If I look at the fault-prone US power grid, then that it is only a disaster!
But you are right, we are not investing enough in the infrastructure in the past and it is now taking revenge. I experience this every day up close with me in Cologne on my way to work, respectively home. The bridge over the river Rhine in Village of Leverkusen (home of the Bayer Corporation) from one of the main important highways in Germany is scrap and can not be used by any truck. A new building was started, but is only in 3, 4 or ? Years finished. The fact that the bridge broke down is self-inflicted and has the consequence that between the cities of Dusseldorf in the north and Bonn in the south over a length of 80 kilometers, there is only one bridge for 15 to 20,000 trucks a day over the Rhine. This automatically means heavy traffic jams and the threefold of travel time for me as normal every day ... and woe if there is an accident, then there is total chaos!

As far as security in German cities is concerned, this has neither worsened nor improved. Germany was and is no different from other countries here. In every city there are districts that are more dangerous than other districts. In other words: In my city of Cologne, it was not advisable to be on the street alone in the district of Kalk 30 years ago and that is still the case today. In all other problematic districts it was and is the same and new districts where it is suddenly more dangerous, they do not really exist! Rather, some parts of the city have become somewhat safer than before.

In general, we have the lowest crime rate in Germany for 25 years at the moment. Sure, one crime will be more, but the other less, and so on.
And if then such a runaway, outrageous guy named Trump, who happens to be US President at the time, then accuses the opposite and fake, then the guy got screwed up here!
Above all, he should first of all deal with the chaos in his own country concerning this topic. If his own wife publicly criticizes his decision to separate parents and children from the illegal immigrants, and then he takes it back (presumably because he would have had to sleep in the White House garage because his wife threw him out of the bedroom ), then that says all about the state in the US!

 

No it was the Americans on this thread who were doing that, not Germans.

 

Ah, Köln... what an interesting city. I used to visit in the home of a dear friend in the Klettenberg district there. I remember Köln as being so much more civilized and "navigable" back in the 1980's than it is now. We used to drive down the autobahn to Bonn at speeds up to 145 kph, and even then cars would come up behind us, flashing their headlights.... But, I digress.

We surely do disagree about what a 'Conservative' is, and what 'Socialism' is, too. I have had these debates with my German friends for years. Even Germans I've known who think of themselves as very conservative are quite reliant and dependent on all the many different socialistic programs that have completely taken over post-World War II Germany. It is even far worse in the rest of Europe. So, there's no use in arguing with you about that. Believe me, we are rushing, headlong, into more and more Socialism in the U. S., too....

My German friends are puzzled and annoyed by Trump, and sometimes it is hard for me to defend some of what he says, some of what he does, and his many frequent changes in position and policy. I understand what he is trying to achieve with all this "tariff" antagonism, and I also understand his kind of business tactics -- because that is what Donald Trump is -- and American businessman, and not just another slime-bag politician. He wants fair and equal trade with all nations -- period. We have not had it since World War II, and because we were 'the biggest and the best', it didn't matter. But now it does.

So many other nations subsidize their domestic companies and industries, and put heavy tariffs on the products made by the United States, and THAT is what Trump is attacking. He wants NATO countries to share the defense costs fairly, in proportion to who-provides-what, and, who-gets-what.

But, back to Germany... and please remember that I do love Germany, and I only want what is best for you, even though that probably means a very changed, and almost certainly 'worse' relationship with America.

Since Reunification, the truth is, really, Germany doesn't NEED America. The Soviet Union is gone. The GDR is gone. There is no more threat of Russian tanks pushing down the Fulda Gap like there was when I was very involved with the American military in that last decade of the Soviet Union. Now, everything is different, as you surely also know.

Today, the smart thing for Germany to do is to create closer business and trade relationships with Russia! You should throw off the burden of the EU and go your own way, while pursuing opportunities with both Russia and China. You already buy a lot of the energy you need from Russia, and if you're smart, you will buy more and more of what you need from them because it is plentiful and inexpensive. And, you already have a lot of business dealings with China, which have so far been mutually-beneficial.

The time of Merkel's kind of government is finished. It should have ended years ago, but you really had no one else to go to. And, it is possible that you still do not have a fundamentally-different alternative. I agree with you that the AfD today mostly plays the role of 'spoiler' and 'agent provocateur'... they don't have the percentage of the vote to lead Germany -- yet. But they have become a focal point for the rage boiling within many Germans now, and it won't get any less intense until Merkel is gone. I think we both know that.

Even back in the 1980's, I used to see signs in West Germany that read, "Ausländer raus!" Ha! And those were "the good old days"....

 

Trump is not only for me a "red cloth" meanwhile and it is not only Trump himself, but also his followers in the US, who also celebrate the whole BS without using the brain!
Much is also based on ignorance of facts, which then leads to the fact that someone believes the Trump BS in the US.
Take as an example the punitive tariffs on steel and aluminum from the EU. The fact is that tariff "A" is to the detriment of the US, tariff "B" again to the detriment of the EU members. On EU cars in the US 2.5% tariff to pay ... on cars from the US in the EU but 10% tariff. But at Pick Ups it is the other way around, on US Pick Ups is 14.5% tariff in the EU, but on Pick Ups from the EU it is 28% tariff in the US!
f you take all the tariffs on all goods and calculate the average tariff, then the US is between 0.2% and 0.6% (depending on the source) at a disadvantage ... and for this Trump starts a trade war, rather than to negotiate with the EU reasonable to come to an amicable solution? Ridiculous, if it were not so serious!
The real point is that Trump hates the EU as a competitor. He must at least negotiate with the complete EU at eye level and here he is not in the position of the stronger of the two and that he hates. Therefore, he tries a pretty dirty game and attacks the strongest EU member - Germany - specifically to weaken the EU.

This brings us to his threat to impose punitive tariffs on espacially German cars only. What he does not understand or if he knows then conceal to his followers is the fact that in return there will be very hard punitive tariffs on US products across the complete EU.
Another fact, which of course is not heard and read in the US and certainly not by the Pro Trump faction, is this:
Who is the largest exporter of "Made in the USA by US workers in US plants"? It's not one of the well-known American brands, it's Mercedes and BMW with their 2 factories ... in which, including the dependent suppliers, around 80,000 Americans are given a well-paid job. And certainly you will never read in the US that, for example, every single SUV from BMW sold in the world, is "Made in the USA". And even more, you'll never see and read the fact in the US media that on each of these SUV from BMW what is going to Germany, these "evil" 10% tariff are also due!

And the culmination of ignorance comes when, for example, Forums colleague Swede Hansen claims that the 19% VAT on US goods is a competitive disadvantage for US products.
You were in Germany yourself and therefore know that the 19% apply to all goods, whether it is product Made in Germany, Made in the USA or Made "wherever" is. Where is there disadvantage for US goods, if the VAT applies to all goods no matter from where?

Trump has kicked the close friends and allies of the US so hard in the ass and continues to show that the world will change. The general opinion of all EU Member States ... OK, maybe not the Poles or Hungarians, but all the important others ... is that you can no longer trust the US as a partner and a friend ... and not only politicians, that says 75-80% of the population. This has not happened since the end of World War II! Sure, anti US forces have always existed and even though some terrorists were like the RAF (Red Army Faction), they were rather insignificant. This is meanwhile completely different!
It is not (yet) a US hostility, but a total Trump hostility. If Trump ever plans a state visit to Europe, he should think better of it. He can forget waving and clapping spectators!

 

You make excellent points here, and the examples of Mercedes and BMW are especially good ones! And, yes, you are absolutely correct when you say that the VAT applies to all goods, including to those made in Germany. I truly do believe that Trump is trying to "level-the-playing-field", and in some targets, like China specifically, he's correct. Besides, the Chinese are the biggest thieves in the world when it comes to stealing other peoples' intellectual property. My intuition tells me that China is his real target, and that he will try to build momentum for successful agreements by canceling the tariffs on German products, and by making minor modifications to the NAFTA agreement. But, I do believe that at this time, America can force China to stop the theft and the unfair trade with us -- but that might surely not be true in another ten years' time.

Nevertheless, I do regret that there is now so much growing antagonism with Germany. Most Americans have no idea how much of the total burden of the entire EU that Germany has to bear. Part of the reason your autobahn system and rail systems are in such a mess now is because of all the extra East-West traffic throughout all of "Western"-to-"Eastern" Europe, and back again. Obviously, the massive number of vehicles cannot pass over the Alps, and the roadways of Northern Italy cannot bear such traffic. Plus, since Reunification, Germany has been spending gigantic amounts of money, not only on all the ancient, decrepit infrastructure of the old GDR, but you've been paying for huge projects in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe, too. And nobody in America knows anything about that. The only thing that makes the news here is when Poland or Greece, or some other country complains that because of World War II, Germany owes them even hundreds of billions MORE euros as 'payment' for one thing or another.

It is hard for me to defend Donald Trump sometimes, but I think I do understand the greater part of what he is trying to achieve. I do wish he would just go ahead and focus on China. If we could just resolve our big differences with China, then everything else would probably fix itself. In any event, I don't see how making an enemy out of Germany is going to help us, truthfully.

Do what is good for Germany! You know that Vladimir Putin is going to do what's good for Russia, that Xi Jinping is going to do what's good for China, and that Donald Trump will do what he feels is good for the USA. Now is the time to find a leader who will DO WHAT IS GOOD FOR GERMANY! That person never really was a globalist like Angela Merkel, but I understand why you had to choose her at the time, because there was no one else who was better, who could also win. Is that still true? I always thought that, through the years, the smartest person in the high ranks of the CDU was Wolfgang Schäuble. He would be 75 years old now, but do you think he might possibly stand for election to be Kanzler? My sense is that if any German politician would do what is good for Germany, it is Herr Schäuble....

For anyone not knowing Wolfgang Schäuble, here is the wiki-bio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Schäuble .

 

I would find it more believable if your post said Dirty Donalds government faces collapse over his immigration policies.We now have states and cities offering financial incentives to try to attract workers to their area,we need immigrants far more than they need us.We have some 95 million American dead beats of working age who voluntarily have withdrawn from our workforce.Despite considerable population growth since 2000,we have less Americans working today than we had back then.

 

I agree with you almost completely, except I wouldn't slam the current administration as "Dirty Donalds government" without some kind of justification. And, I doubt that there are really all THAT many voting American taxpayer-citizens who think that a continuation of 'Messiah' Obama's totally negligent, idiotic immigration policy is a good idea. Oh... and look at what that kind of crap has done to GERMANY!

Trump is trying to get a compromise achieved in which, among other things, there would be an overhaul of the "Green Card" system for aliens to be able to come into the country on a streamlined, temporary basis, work, make good money, and then LEAVE. That is exactly what we need, as you've pointed out, and I do agree with you about that. But we need no further 'immigration', per se, at all. We have over 325 MILLION people in the United States today, and we don't need any more! BTW, at the end of World War II, the population of this country was slightly less than 142 million. Think about that! By contrast, all German Chancellor, Merkel can do now is sputter and flail around -- with only a few days left before her coalition will grind to a halt!

Back over here, you are correct in saying that we in the United States do have millions upon millions of working-aged deadbeats who got accustomed to (and very satisfied with) taking every kind of handout welfare that they could and avoid working altogether. So, they suck on their parents, they suck on the government, they suck on anyone and anything they can attach themselves to. So, YES, we do have a 'clear and present' need for people to come do the jobs that Americans no longer know how to do, or just WON'T do. But let's bring any foreign workers into this country LEGALLY! I've been asking myself for years, "But why the hell can't we bring them in here LEGALLY?!" I'm sure there are many Germans who have been asking themselves the same damn thing....

 

Well the more they let in the more they increase the chances of a Nazi type of ideology to come into power and frankly at this point, a group like that might be the only thing that fixes the problems they are having right now.

Kind of a pick your poison type of deal for them.

 

The US will never allow a partnership between those two countries!

Most Germans know that Hitler had no choice, because he discovered that Stalin was getting ready to attack Germany, hence the "Blitzkrieg" to get ahead of that attack.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C8623AB7ACB42F309589C8623AB7ACB42F3&FORM=VIRE

 

Merkel changed the refugee policy after this TV program, in which a Muslim girl pleaded with her to allow her family to stay in Germany. Probably a male leader would not have been emotionally swayed by what one little girl said. Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer has been named the new secretary-general of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), raising speculation that she could eventually replace Angela Merkel as party leader.

 

I've read this kind of speculative stuff before, but there is really nothing concrete to back it up. Russia had had its ass kicked hard in World War I, and it had surrendered to Germany. The Soviet military of the 1930's had nothing but antiquated, old crap (and not even much of it), whereas the Germans were fully stocked with all the latest weapons technology -- including tanks, field artillery, and bleeding-edge attack airplanes! Plus, nobody in "the West" was doing Stalin any favors at all. Britain and the U. S. especially hated and feared the rise of Communism, and there were even a lot of early supporters of Nazi Germany in both countries because they saw Germany as being a check on the spread of Communism. Roosevelt and Churchill both nearly had heart-failure when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union signed a non-aggression pact with each other in 1939 -- a few months before WWII started!

The most convincing accounts I've read suggest, rather strongly, that nobody was more surprised by the sudden German attack on the Soviet Union than Josef Stalin himself....

 

Yes, it is true that the Germans surprised the Russians, and that is why they made such progress in the beginning... almost reaching Moscow by the end of November, 1941.

I suggest you read the full article below. Here is just a short excerpt about the armament of the Russians, it shows how much and how well the USSR was equipped:

"Inside the USSR, an intensive armaments production program was under way. During 1938, it had increased by 39 percent, compared to 13 percent in civil industry. Emphasis was placed on armor, development of artillery and aeronautics. In September 1939 the USSR defense committee contracted the construction of nine aircraft production plants, and seven more to manufacture aircraft engines.

This was supplemented by the conversion to fabrication of aviation components of a number of consumer goods factories. In 1940, Soviet production of modern combat airplanes increased over 70 percent from the previous year. The ground forces experienced a parallel upgrading of weaponry. Between January 1939 and June 1941, the Red Army received over 7,000 new tanks and 82,000 artillery pieces (including mortars).

On June 26, 1940, a law was enacted extending the Soviet workday from seven to eight hours, and to seven days per week. Disciplinary action for tardiness or slothfulness in the factories was imposed on the work force. These are measures normally introduced during wartime.

Conscription swelled the ranks of the Red Army. A force numbering 1 million men in the spring of 1938 surpassed 5 million by June 1941. The growth was summarized by the historian Roger Reese: "There were 198 rifle divisions in 1941, compared to fewer than 30 in 1927; 31 motorized rifle divisions in 1941 and none in 1927; 61 tank divisions in 1941 and none as late as 1939."

Read more here:
https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/stalwarplans.html

 

Never heard of her. I would have thought v.d. Leyen would perhaps make it to the top position.

Well, what shocked me the other day is the apparent fact, that Merkel and Erdogan were in cahoots with each other in bringing in a million refugees on the suggestion of big German factory bosses, needing workers....

"In 2015, Chancellor Angela Merkel and Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who had become the world protector of the Muslim Brotherhood, organized the transfer of more than a million people to Germany, thus conforming to the demand by German industrial business leaders. A number of these migrants are Syrians, including those the AKP no longer wants, and which Germany does not want to return home."

Read full article here:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article201579.html
------
No wonder mainly top-fit males arrived in Germany! Ready to go to work!
And I was under the impression these guys had left their countries because of war. I often would lament, why don't they stay home and fight the enemy??

 

AKA involuntary suicide, retroactive abortion and unscheduled departures. Many elderly believe their longevity increases by staying away from European hospitals.

 

And yet... who has never thought of emigrating to America?

 

We can see still how angry the US is due to the North Stream Pipeline issue ... but what will and can the US do against a partnership and what gives them the right to such things to intervene, eh?

Germany is a sovereign state and not a puppet of the USA. With regard to North Stream, Trump has already caught a fierce slap from Germany, which has sat (of course not reported in the US media).
And let's be honest ... in the meantime, Russia has become much more trustworthy as a partner than the US is currently!

Stalin's prepared for a war with Hitler is beyond any doubt! The non-aggression pact in the run-up to Poland and the agreement of who gets what from Poland were for Stalin no more than a purchased time. It was necessary for Hitler, because he realized that there would be war with France and Great Britain if he attacked Poland and so he wanted to keep his back free.

How far the USSR's attack on Germany had gone was revealed when the Germans attacked in 1941. There, Sichel masses were stationed at troops, but anything but ready to fight! The entire deployment of the Red Army was not even prepared for an attack and set.
Historians assume that it would not come to a war until about mid-1942, if Hitler had not attacked in 1941.

 

Me.

 

The Americans had warned Stalin of the attack but he refused to believe it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13862135

 

Good to see you've always been happy where you are. Others often have dreams of starting a new life elsewhere and those dreams often include America, if only out of curiosity.

 

I do not doubt what you say here, or your sources. The new Soviet Union was only born in very late 1922. The Communist leaders knew that all the major Western nations (including the strife-torn Weimar Republic in post-WWI Germany) hated and feared them, and would have preferred to have wiped out the Soviet Union completely.

But, when National Socialism came to power in Germany, the Soviets saw that with the exception of 'German-nationalism', the Nazis and the Communists were actually very similar. Indeed, German Communists made rapid and easy transitions into the National Socialist Party once they saw that Hitler was a permanent fixture.

During the 1930's the Nazis were tolerated and even encouraged by 'the West', because they were a powerful buffer against a further expansion of the Soviet Union. The Russians were uneasy, and still felt that everyone was against them -- but, by late in 1938, it was clear enough to Stalin that what Germany really wanted was the huge section of territory of the former Upper Silesia and Prussia that had been stolen from Germany after World War I by 'the West'. So, when the opportunity to cement a Non-aggression Pact came in Spring 1939, Stalin was all-in.

But as for Russian military powerful and preparedness? When Hitler launched his "Operation Barbarossa" less than two years later, the Germans stormed into the Soviet Union in an electrifying way that was almost unstoppable. The technology of the German weapons, and their abundant numbers allowed to the Germans almost to enter Moscow.

The poor Russians? While it is true that the Soviet military commanders drove many thousands of young Russians into their military forces, an astounding number of them had no equipment to fight with at all! At Stalingrad, many of the Red Army soldiers had to charge into German machine gun fire without even any rifles or ammunition. They had to wait for one of their comrades to be killed, and then they could grab his rifle, and hope that it still had a few rounds left in it.

Anyway, it's all history now. Hitler refused to allow Field Marshal von Paulus to execute a strategic withdrawal and retreat from Stalingrad, and so the Wehrmacht lost its entire 6th Army. It certainly wasn't the first unbelievably stupid blunder that Hitler made, and it wasn't his last....

Fast-forward to today, in 2018... what would happen if a new series of agreements and pacts were made between the Russian Federation and the Federal Republic of Germany?! What would happen if, THIS time, no one were stupid and idiotic enough to break them.... A German/Russian partnership would completely dominate everything of any real substance, from the Atlantic Ocean east to the Pacific Ocean (on a line running north of China, of course....)

 

Oh, no... I live in Siberia... you know... Bears running through the streets... Leakage of vodka from Kalashnikov... What else? Oh, yes! The matryoshka is a repeat offender...

But... But... Siberia is my Motherland. I don't think it's good to change the Motherland. It's like to change a mother. Or like to sell a mother. Though... Maybe it's good for a real American. I don't know. I am badly awarded about the American culture.

You know what Russian immigrants say about Americans? You will be surprised. They laugh for you and say that you are idiots. They say that that you are fats and stupids. We, real Russians don't like that people. But I am sure that all immigrants are the same. Like any persons that sold his mother.

 

I believe the author wrote that the battle formation of the Soviets, were more in tune for an attack than for a defensive measure. Seems to me they both had their opposing ideologies - and were preparing for war. The Germans reacted to the horrors of the Russian revolution, and the internationalism of the communists by becoming staunch nationalists. What they wanted was the rich black soil of Ukraine and Western Russia to feed their large population. They had one problem though, there were Slavs living on the land, so they had to be pushed to the Urals or eliminated.

The international communist ideology which had taken over Russia, could not co-exist with the existing system, so they had to draw the rest of the world into its own sphere.

Anyway the Germans had no idea of the military strength of the Soviet Union. They assumed they had 5 thousand tanks, and it turned out to be 35 thousand.