Anti-vaxxers crumble as every prediction fails to come true

Is this a joke! It's YOUR claim your burden of proof!

Still evading this entire post.

 

In the study, all the data came from “all cause mortality” statistics which includes all deaths. They obviously had no data related to who was vaccinated and who wasn’t when they died. So your statement is false.

There are quite a few graphs in Rancourt’s study, they all deal with all cause mortality numbers. There is no data that indicates within the all cause mortality data who had been vaccinated and who wasn’t vaccinated. This makes the study worthless. How can you possibly draw any kind of association between vaccination and death when you actually haven’t considered who was vaccinated when they died. Nor did they consider actual cause of death within their data set. They took all deaths in various countries and said vaccines caused the deaths without knowing who was vaccinated and the stated cause of death.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...WQiLCJwcmV2aW91c1BhZ2UiOiJwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiJ9fQ

 

The slobbering static in 601 notwithstanding....
Yes they used a ton of references and I have mixed feelings about it because they did a fabulous job charting and integrating the data, what I dont like about them is they do not make it easy for me to put into any perspective than what they set out to prove which I think they did very well, which was that the greatest excess deaths occurred in conjunction with the various vax rollouts. I believe they used the term "casual estimate" in regard to the 17 million figure and for that one of us would have to write them to find out if they accounted for it in the analysis which frankly I am far too lazy to do, and I certainly am not going to take the time to go through 100's of charts and research the unvaxd numbers without a nice fat check. This puts us in the precarious position, (unless you want to do the work) where neither one of us can prove the 17million either way. Bottom line yes I assume they accounted for the normal excess death rate, but until we know if they accounted for the unvaccinated which incidentally in the US is a purely fraudulently inflated number there is no way to say for sure either way. I didnt claim the 17 million was true, just that I assumed they compared it to the standard excess death rate of each country but then their intention was to prove correlation no predict actual death toll numbers.

thisi s from wellner she invented the opendata system with over 10,million subscribers, and like she said the system works, it was just ignored and when I compare this to what your guys did 17million doesnt seem outrageous.

 

The real static is from you, consistently evading things across multiple threads, whilst relying on flawed data, crappy reports and misguided people who have an axe to grind! From @MuchAdo post above that you have ignored! I have taken the liberty of itemizing it - show some integrity and respond to it!

1. The fake news that vaccines caused seventeen million deaths is ridiculous considering the overwhelming lack of evidence that vaccines are harmful and the overwhelming evidence that they are safe.

2. The crap about the 17 million deaths came from an analysis from Rancourt et al. They claimed that spikes in excess mortality in the post-vaccination period correlated to vaccine rollout. Unfortunately, they didn’t account for deaths being caused by covid-19 or any other cause of death.

3. Rancourt is obviously biased related to anything to do with vaccines. He is a member of Pandata. This group has actively promoted covid-19 denialism and vaccine misinformation. Rancourt has stated “there was no pandemic”. With that kind of ridiculous statement, anything else he claims is suspect.

4. Did Rancourt et al even establish whether people who died had been vaccinated? Nope. The analysis is worthless. How can you possibly draw any kind of association between vaccination and death when you actually haven’t considered who was vaccinated when they died.

5. Did the analysis consider that covid-19 was a possible explanation for spikes in excess mortality? Nope. The spikes in excess mortality matched surges in covid-19 deaths.

6. Was mortality higher in countries with greater vaccine coverage compared to the countries with lower vaccine coverage? Nope.

7. Did a study demonstrate that excess all-cause mortality was greater in the ten least-vaccinated states? Indeed. Bilinski et al. (2023) COVID-19 and Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US and 20 Comparison Countries, June 2021-March 2022. JAMA Network.

8. Did a study find that all-cause mortality was 37% lower in the vaccinated group? Tu et al. (2023) SARS-CoV-2 Infection, Hospitalization, and Death in Vaccinated and Infected Individuals by Age Groups in Indiana, 2021‒2022. American Journal of Public Health.

9. So, there is actually no evidence that 17 million excess deaths were caused by the vaccines unless you consider a flawed analysis to be irrefutable evidence.

 

Delete

 

I have also gone through the arguments on this upthread including the work of Ed Dowd “Cause Unknown” this has been discussed upthread with the same responses. It boils down to whether you are willing to take action based on data trends and statistical analysis and formal or informal risk vs. harm evaluations used. There is in my opinion a correlation between vaccination and serious adverse effects. In Dowd’s book:

I have taken all this is as well as the Covid mortality data and come to the conclusion that anyone under under the age of 65 and in good health (having none of the CDC listed serious preconditions which put individuals at high risk to Covid symptoms) have no need to be vaccinated. This applies especially to children and young adults especially males. I am 75 in good health. I will not be getting another covid jab. My wife is also 75 and has been going through a serious hearing loss after 2 shots and 2 boosters.

Vaccination should be a personal decision however but information on the risks must be available to make an informed decision. Vaccination should not be forced. A recent case in Australia awarded damages to a man who was forced to be vaccinated at the threat of losing his job and suffered severe adverse reactions.

The arguments on the other side is that there is no 100% proof that these reactions are caused by the vaccines. For almost all decisions in live we don’t have 100% proof. But our decisions will be much more successful if we maximize our information base. There are articles posted upthread from IIRC CDC a high level official asking for more detailed risk vs harm based on age and health population segments after he suffered severe tinnitus.

I can’t help go off topic and point out that the entire global warming catastrophic scenario are based on climate models which are based on the claim that enhanced human CO2 emissions are the cause of this warming. There is no scientific proof of that.

 

"The fake news that vaccines caused seventeen million deaths is ridiculous." It WAS disinfo, well done!

"Unfortunately, they didn’t account for deaths being caused by covid-19 or any other cause of death." Nice try shifting the burden of proof. YOU have to show that they DID account for them, disproving a negative is not possible.

"This group has actively promoted covid-19 denialism and vaccine misinformation." Since you insist on cross spamming this garbage all over threads, the proof is on another thread!
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...wn-your-immune-system.617143/#post-1074689212
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...wn-your-immune-system.617143/#post-1074689771
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...wn-your-immune-system.617143/#post-1074689821

"Did Rancourt et al even establish whether people who died had been vaccinated? Nope." Nice try shifting the burden of proof. YOU have to show that they DID account for them, disproving a negative is not possible.

"Did the analysis consider that covid-19 was a possible explanation for spikes in excess mortality? Nope." Nice try shifting the burden of proof. YOU have to show that they DID account for them, disproving a negative is not possible.

"Was mortality higher in countries with greater vaccine coverage compared to the countries with lower vaccine coverage? Nope." Nice try shifting the burden of proof. YOU have to show that they DID account for them, disproving a negative is not possible.

"Did a study demonstrate that excess all-cause mortality was greater in the ten least-vaccinated states? Indeed." Bilinski et al. (2023) COVID-19 and Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US and 20 Comparison Countries, June 2021-March 2022. JAMA Network. I think that is so very, very deceptive. You get given a link PROVING IT! then miss it off of your useless response and ask to prove it!

"Did a study find that all-cause mortality was 37% lower in the vaccinated group?" Tu et al. (2023) SARS-CoV-2 Infection, Hospitalization, and Death in Vaccinated and Infected Individuals by Age Groups in Indiana, 2021‒2022. American Journal of Public Health. AGAIN that is so very, very deceptive. You get given a link PROVING IT! then miss it off of your useless response and ask to prove it!

"So, there is actually no evidence that 17 million excess deaths were caused by the vaccines" Nice try shifting the burden of proof. YOU have to show that they DID account for them, disproving a negative is not possible.



Your reply is a demonstration of the wilful evasion being exhibited in these threads.

 

There is correlation which does not prove causation but does not exclude causation. That summizes the situation that most people face every day when making decisions.

 

Then he has nothing but speculation! In small numbers in his own isolated practice.

No it doesn't. Without definitive evidence and truly excessive bloviating claims, people are being dishonestly influenced by noisy anti-vax posters!

 

It’s all part of the anti-vaxxers playbook.

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DCF/Agency/JIC-Resources/The_Anti-Vaxx_Playbook.pdf

https://counterhate.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/210324-The-Disinformation-Dozen.pdf

 

If that is your conclusion from all this then it's your prerogative to take all the mRNA vaccine shots that you desire. And to include your family members including children under 12 (which most if not all countries prohibit) and pregnant women.

 

Hyperbole, off topic scare-mongering horseshit. There is no causation data, his numbers are only within his small practice. His numbers do NOT correlate against the incidences posted up thread!

 

Make up your own mind. If you demand 100% absolute proof for everything so be it. We have been through all this before with Fraiman, Dowd, and Rancourt. There is correlation which you choose to ignore at your own peril. I choose to follow data and correlation at my own peril.

 

What the hell? Why would you state such an obvious thing?

Non sequitur. I don't and never have. Overwhelming works.

Hogwash. There is NO correlation or peril. The horseshit claims about people dying en masse have been shown as lies.

So what!?

 

There is correlation of excess deaths with forced vaccination. The SOA have shown and taken notice. The spike occurred in one of the most healthy demographic segments of the American population which are at very very low risk to covid if they do not have the CDC listed pre conditions. You are ignoring the significance of that. Good luck.

 

No there isn't!

Nope.

I am ignoring nothing but your false statements!

 

The above is a great example of post modernism.

 

This is a good example of thread derailing.

 

All this was discussed in much more detail a few hundred posts ago in this very thread. No complaints then.

 

I'm seeing quite a disturbing pattern going on in this sub-forum. Posts are getting systematically evaded using a combination of diversion, spam, straight avoidance and more recently dishonest statements.

What mentality does it take to say "prove it" in reply to a statement that has a link PROVING the damn statement!

 

The only way to prove a correlation if by systematically investigating every incidence. The entities who are capable of doing so refuse to do so.

What mentality does it take to ignore clear signs of danger to people who don't need to be exposed to that danger. What is clear to me is that people who are at very very low risk to Covid (which is practically speaking everyone under the age of 65 without the CDC listed preconditions) should not be subjected to the dangers of the mRNA vaccines. Would you insist that your pregnant wife be vaccinated and your 6 month old child be vaccinated? No.

 

STOP quoting me and ignoring what you quote! I'm trying to get @Kokomojojo to honestly reply to #607 and you are derailing the thread with your off topic opinion. I'm not interested in entertaining your fears.

 

This thread is about the dangers of the mRNA vaccines. There is no derailment. There is correlation. There is not proof because those who could do the verification refuse to do so.

 

Really? You think THIS title isn't totally obviously NOT about them!?
Anti-vaxxers crumble as every prediction fails to come true

Yeah there is and you continue to do it with every post.

Nope - conspiracy garbage speculation. There is no batshit mass-death going on. The death-rate hasn't rocketed, there's nothing happening with vaccinated people!

A ridiculous claim! Scientists love things to analyze!

As a great yardstick, the population of middle-age or even older Hollywood are not dropping like flies. All major sporting organizations are just fine. There's no plummeting medical resources because our nurses and doctors are all dying from the vaccine!

It's all just crazy batshit and to be honest, there are a ridiculous number of threads on the subject.

 

There has been a spike in deaths after vaccinations. That has been shown repeatedly.