Anti-vaxxers crumble as every prediction fails to come true

A lot of doctors and researchers do.

Who the hell told you that nonsense?

There was no such claim by anyone we might take seriously. Maybe you watch much tv.

What is "this?" The vaccines were tested for safety and efficacy. Contrary to what you say, serious people were looking at aspects of a vaccination program.

We should have a commission on our response to the pandemic.

 

Yes, it does.

https://www.statnews.com/2024/02/01/updated-covid-vaccine-effectiveness/

 

Didn't Biden himself call the shot a biological dead end for Covid? I'll have to review. One of the Justices of the USSC also said it stops the spread, which it didn't. Hard to get search results as powerful people do impact them. You might have heard even right now it is reported that Google is trying to change the definition of "blood bath" sorta like they did to "sexual preference" right after the term was being used in the Barret hearings.

Did find this:

This article wants to debunk something going around social media but it really sounds like semantics.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...-vaccines-initial-approval-pfizer-2024-02-12/

They report, "They did not have to show that the vaccine would also prevent people from spreading the virus to others." Later they report (one person!?!?) wrote, 'one user wrote “Pfizer director admits ‘vaccine’ wasn’t tested for transmissibility. Pfizer ‘vaccine’ wasn’t intended to prevent transmission. Politicians and MSM spread misinformation. Vaccine mandates/passports were immoral, unscientific, and should’ve been illegal.”' The difference sure as hell doesn't sound like a biological dead end to me.

 

I pointed out the error of your thinking.

The death stat from Canada is based on PCR tests given every hospital patient and death certificates, mostly from hospitalized patients. Because hospitals are government-run and unionized, covid patients were transferred between facilities, etc., there was no incentive to jack up numbers of deaths from covid, a common accusation by critics (like you?) of numbers from the U.S.


The Canadians know who was vaccinated and who died of covid. You appear to me as someone so rigid in his thinking that you're unable to accept that the shots save lives.

You continue criticizing the numbers from Canada without knowing how their system works.

 

Biden also declared the pandemic was over in Spring 2021. His popularity plummeted after that gaffe along with our ignominious exit from Afghanistan.

Will you get it right this time?

It slows the spread. Anyway, it looks as though you seek medical advice from celebrity sources.

You get better results in some cases from AI.

That sort of debate is for low-information dummies.

If you want to get up to speed, why not try Google Scholar?

https://scholar.google.com/

 

To be accurate death certificates didn't provide information about deaths from Covid. They provided information about deaths that occurred while testing positive for Covid. Statistics mislead almost as often as they inform. Don't be rigid. Be fair.

 

Are you okay? (I don't think do.)

 

Of the two of us, I remember them telling us the shot stopped the spread, then had to admit they didn't even have data to support that position. So, there's that.

 

Nor would I have long-term studies on a lot of vaccines. Should we have waited for 30-year studies on the Salk polio vaccine?

"By the mid-20th century, the poliovirus could be found all over the world and killed or paralysed over half a million people every year. With no cure, and epidemics on the rise, there was an urgent need for a vaccine.

A breakthrough occurred in 1949, when poliovirus was successfully cultivated in human tissue by John Enders, Thomas Weller and Frederick Robbins at Boston Children’s Hospital. Their pioneering work was recognized with the 1954 Nobel Prize.

Not long afterwards, in the early 1950s, the first successful vaccine was created by US physician Jonas Salk. Salk tested his experimental killed-virus vaccine on himself and his family in 1953, and a year later on 1.6 million children in Canada, Finland and the USA.

The results were announced on 12 April 1955, and Salk’s inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) was licensed on the same day. By 1957, annual cases dropped from 58 000 to 5600, and by 1961, only 161 cases remained."​

https://www.who.int/news-room/spotlight/history-of-vaccination/history-of-polio-vaccination#:~:text=Salk%20tested%20his%20experimental%20killed,licensed%20on%20the%20same%20day.

.SARCASM MODE ON
How irresponsible of the government! They should have waited for a 30-year study.
.SARCASM MODE OFF

No, we don't know that. The vaccine is 50% effective at preventing infection for a few months. By six months, the vaccine is largely ineffective at preventing infection. You could stop presenting misinformation as fact.

It reduced the chance of infection by 50% for a few months.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new...text=CDC data show that vaccination,1 variant.

You're upset because, like you, I didn't add "scientific" evidence to point out the obvious?

We know it has preventative short-term benefits. This (again!) from Canada...


What I don't understand about you anti-vaxxers is your inability or unwillingness to look at the research done by independent sources. I can't count the number of times I'm met with idiots calling "Fake News!" and informing me I've been duped. Some of these jokers are dumber than a sack of hammers, but they run their mouths about what they know not. I know how they collect data in Canada and why the government can't get away with manipulating it. Besides, the medical personnel are unionized and have unions that make all but the nastiest unions is this countries look like pushovers. Not too many years ago, the teachers' union in British Columbia (teachers!!!) defied a back-to-work order. The government threatened the union president with jail and she held out her hands for the bracelets. Pols don't dare mess with unions in Canada. The data is Canada is legit.

If you want to tease out the deaths. I'll just let you know that almost every person in a care facility--you know, really old and vulnerable types--have been vaccinated. The deaths you see among the unvaccinated aren't old folks.

 

Yeah, and Old Joe said the pandemic was over in 2001. I didn't believe him either because I looked into the science. You might try doing the same.

 

The data on people who aren’t “old folks” is meaningless without information on the presence of the CDC preconditions. In the US ~ 94% of people who died with covid had one or more of the CDC preconditions with put them at high risk to covid. People who point this out are not anti vaxxer’s. They are people who believe that those at very low risk to covid do not need to be exposed to the dangers of the mRNA vaccines.

 

Wrong. In Canada, they gave PCR tests and each death of a person with covid was looked at in terms of what was the proximate cause of death.

Canada eventually changed their counting to determine who died with covid. The change makes it look as though Canada was doing worse than other countries that continued to evaluate each death to decide if covid was the cause.

 

You do realize Canada isn't the 51st state?

The unvaccinated who died in Canada weren't vaccinated seniors because almost all seniors were vaccinated.

Canada knows who was vaccinated, so the unvaccinated who died weren't seniors, The vaccines save lives.

I find it hard to believe you can't figure out if almost all seniors in Canada are vaccinated they aren't the unvaccinated who died of covid.

 

Again the above is meaningless without preconditions data.

 

"Them?" Who? Company mouthpieces like Dr. Scott Gottlieb for Pfizer never claimed their vaccine would stop the spread of covid. With Omicron, he almost completely stopped talking about doing anything other than reducing the severity of infections.

Why do you keep talking about pols, propagandists, and paid mouthpieces when there are serious people who aren't sock puppets and liars? I saw Fauci lie about high-quality PPE not being needed and then later admit he was trying to protect the supply of N95s and better for first responders and healthcare workers.

We could have a covid commission, but I don't think pols want to explain why nursing home patients couldn't put on PAPR like this...



... so they could have seen their relatives? No fit tests.

I wonder if some low-information folks would have anything to talk about it they couldn't just talk about Biden, Trump or their stooges.

 

If you are suggesting that they did autopsies on those patients then I don't believe it. Sorry.

 

It doesn't matter if they had preexisting conditions.


Almost all really old folks in Canada who died from covid were fully vaccinated. They're over in the righthand column of the "Deaths" in the graph above. You might be at least a little curious who died in the first three columns.

This is the number of covid deaths in the United States as of



https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

If we died at the same rate as Canadians, a half million of us would still be here for Easter.

 

You've run out of things to say to defend your position and now it's straw man time?

 

Of course it matters if they had pre existing conditions. Those with pre existing conditions are at high risk to covid infection. The data above is meaningless without that information.

 

It's only meaningless if you're going to kiss off 80+ folks and those with preexisting conditions like they don't matter. My 40-year-old niece has lupus and two pre-teen girls. Write her off? How about diabetics? Heart disease? Cancer?

We're just looking at the deaths. Millions of Americans have a reduced quality of life from covid, and some are likely to die an early death because of their covid caused physical problems.

Still, we have people spreading misinformation. My favorite in this thread is the claim Pfizer "admitted" it didn't look at transmission rates for their vaccine. They looked at the chance of getting symptomatic disease.

 

LOL. You know the answer to the question. You know that "proximate cause" is determined by autopsy, not medical records or warm feelings. There is no conclusive evidence that COVID killed anybody. Like you I think many were but nowhere even close to the number provided by death certificates and government reports. My position is not a straw man. It is fact. Your position is opinion.

 

You cannot interpret the data properly without the preconditions being included.

 

Quit digging...

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/faq.htm

You might give this some thought...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted1/

 

We can, however, determine the cause of death without an autopsy.

 

Not necessarily.