Arab illegal building on lands that Jews bought

Co-exsitence with people that consider you as a "pig"?
I also want to live co-existence with the people around me, but their actions and how they consider me, is not making me the feeling like they will do something for that co-existence.

 

I used to think like that till the "Arab spring", since then I realized they hardly get along with each other, some even consider their own "brithers" worse than they consider us Israelis, I'm not judging, Europeans slaughtered each other for centuries, US had the great civil war and if Israel was left alone its possible we would have our own internal war as well.

How the hell can I complain how they review me after all we've been throu ?, I think we can continue to hate each other with an agreement and leave this "chaos" behind us.

However I may be wrong and mistrust/hate got nothing to do with it, just the basic dispute over habitat area and national ego which will prevent any kind of agreement.

Don't know but we tend to get along with any option.

 

The "Arab sppring" has nothing to do with the "Palestinians". The Arab spring was in countries like Egypt, Lybia and so on.
Do they hate parts of themselves? of course, but it will not change the fact that they consider you as a pig and they will do anything to stop you until you will pay the Jizah and eventually become Muslim.

The inner war in the Muslim world has nothing to do with how they consider nor what they want to do regarding you and our country.

That's why. If we will not know our past and how words are easily can trasfer to actions then we will have no future.
A wise man once said: "A person who does not know his past, his present uncertain and his future unknown"

How can you be certain that this chaos will be bhind us? In our reality the more reasonble option is that htis chaos will not over until the Arabs will "uproot the Zionist enitty" from this land. (As they continually say)

This conflict is not about lands, or territories. If it was all about territories and lands, this conflict would be over in no time after numerous of times the Arabs been offered lands over and over again.

 

Honestly ... is this now a serious try to blame Arabs in Israel to have illegal buildings in Jewish land? If yes, then it failed utterly and is only a lame try of few, questionable counter examples against these criminal Israeli politics of huge land grab against Palestinians which can be called and compared with South African Apartheid and which is only exceeded by the US with their land grab against American natives in last century!

And yes ... I'm German and born as German, but forget now the common reaction of blaming to be anti-Semitism and Germans have to shout up due to Holocaust and Auschwitz! Parts of my family died in Bergen Belsen concentration camps and were treated by Nazis ... and I'm far away to be a Nazi! But I'm open eyed and not feared to tell truth to people who excuse their bad behavior against others with the right of self defence and Holocaust!

 

Yes but I divide between hopes and actual actions, I don't think they will ever fully accept us, I used to think that's enough to wage a never ending war but now I know they are not even that united against us, we are just another hated ethnic/religion in the ME and if we play the game everyone else does in the ME we can fit in, even have normal relations with some countries from time to time. perhaps another 50 years are needed.

We are fighting them for many years and we got very good at it, there is no risl of forgetting the threats we face, Im saying it may be possible to pick a side, establish a local alliance and the play the game everyone else does in the ME, instead of fighting them all from our "fortress".

I'm not certain, but I think we can chance it in the WB, we are strong enough to assume control should it backfire, besides I never suggested the Palestinian demands should be all accepted.

We never went to full way even when we agreed on something, so we never fulfilled the demands of their "moderates", we had (good) excuses not to that's true, but if we can sort the issue with Hamas, I think we can chance it with the WB.

 

So are you saying that if a person build something on a property that he doesnt have permits to, he can continue building on it?

What are you talking about? When once I said something about that "Germans need to shut up due to the Holocaust"? What are you talking about?

 

"in the ME if we play the game everyone else does"? You are not responsible to what other people will do or will not do, you are only responsible to your own actions. Dont say "if we do it then everyone else will follow" because you cant promise it + you are not the responsible for someone else state of mind.

Israel tried to co-exist with the Arabs. If it is in Oslo Accords, which without the Second Intifadah they would have a state by now.

Israel already tried to establish a allience/co-existence whatever you like to call it, and every time the Arabs backfired at us and decided that shooting rockets/bombing a bus is the better way for them.

I never said you suggested the "Palestinian" demands should be all accepted. (to the rest I already replied)

Once again, how can you "sort te issue with Hamas", if Hamas think that Be'er Sheva should be liberated by them? Or how can you "sort the issue with Hamas" when ISIS is gaining control in Gaza?

 

No, wrong does not wrong right again ... but there are now these few examples of Arabs standing against hundreds of examples where Jews land grab Palestinian land ... and no one tells this too, but now a big story about these few Arabic issues is a lame!

No, you didn't of course, sorry! But I'm personally so over with these normally coming reactions of the past against me as in common to any German critics against Israel that I become a little bit sensitive and can't hear this bull**** I showed anymore. Sorry ...

 

So according to the you are agreeing with me that this Arabs should be evecuated from such properties.

(There were planty of exemples when Jews got evecueted from their houses because it been proved as illegal).

It's ok bro, dont worry
Keep critic things that you think it should be criticized. dont bother with kids tell you that you cant critic something because of the Holocaust. Not you nor your generation is to blame for the Holocaust.

 

If it is really illegal ... what I can't rate with full details by my own ... then yes!
But in reverse have about over hundred still existing Jewish illegal settlements (even by Israel law illegal!) to be evacuated too, because same thing as Arabic issue at least.
Including to this are things and case as for example the Gevaot when a expropriation of 400 hectares of Palestinian ground was done, because these 3 Jewish Teenager were killed.

It is not only with these silly kids ... The Central Council of Jews in Germany is too often acting like a bull in China shop if someone is making any serious and with well arguments backed critics and points against Israel ... as did the Israel ambassadors in the past too. Example:
A higher German politician of social democratic party criticized the use of cluster bombs by Israeli Air Force in Southern Lebanon against estimated Hezbollah positions some years ago in matter that the general use of them is a crime because too much percent will not explode and so are a heavy danger for any civilians. Reaction Israel embassy: We never used cluster bombs!" ... After the UN Forces deployed later found and have to remove the rests of cluster bombs, she made the ironic question "if these are not Israeli cluster bombs, maybe the non existing Hezbollah Air Force bombed himself?
Reaction from Israel was that they "never denied to use them" (lie, see above) and "we refuse to tolerate any criticism of our military operations from any German". This was then backed and forced with comment of Central Council of Jews to her that she should not make any further anti-Semitism behavior!

 

Well, regarding that exemple, according to previous agreement that been made between Israel and the Arabs, the IDF has the right to posses lands, even if it Jewish owned or Arab owned, due to a security need.

Look, today all kind of organizations using the word "anti-semitism" wrongly and sometimes take it out of proportion. Sometimes it is just and there are cases that people use this word after taking out of proportion some case.
According to the exemple you provided here, then if this politican said only this, then this Jewish organization use "anti-semitism" wrongly. But of course, I cant really say it with full confidence, because I didnt see the actuall qoutes of him.

 

Sure, that the IDF has the right to do out of security reasons is of course and at least OK so far. If it is for example necessary to establish a camp somewhere with ADA weapons to counter any Hamas missile attacks from Gaza strip, it is OK.
But I’m talking of these many settlements where settlers made land grab overnight and establish on Palestinian ground and then being so impudent to demand that they have to agree with it. Other examples are these when Palestinian farmers were cut off from water supply by neighbor Jewish settlements and so after the Arab farmer has finally given up, they conquer his land overnight too.

I agree that the term "anti-semitism" is miss-used too often … and unfortunately it is used to silence critics.
About this case here I must investigate first in Internet to deliver the things, but I’m sure that most will be in German language only … like this fast found example:

http://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/...alrat-der-juden-greift-wieczorek-zeul-an.html

 

Such illegal settlements that were proven as such, were evecueted or will be evecueted.

German is not a language that I familier much, but I did a little bit understood from the article that this politican had been accused by the president of the Central Council in the past for his previous statements, and according to the council, the criticism that been made by this politican (his name is Wieczorek-Zeul?) regarding the bombs in Lebanon was influenced by his "anti-Israel" and "anti-Judaism" statements he made in the past.
Now I cant really say if they were right or wrong, becuase I never heard this politican's statements, but if we will assume that he didnt made such statements then such accusations from the central council against the politican's criticism on using such bombs in Lebanon is ludacris. After all Merkel hasnt signed the patition that supports labeling goods from the settlements.

 

The Israeli settlements are on twice as much private land as was bought by Jews before 1949.

so when did the Jews buy all this extra land?

 

Most Palestinians don't consider Israelis as pigs. Israel has made peace with Arabs like with Egypt and Jordan. These have held up despite incitement from Egyptian government including government tv program during Mubarak era treat protocols of elders of zion as fact. Israel negotiated with the Palestinians before with Olmert and Abbas both agreeing they were months away from a deal but ran out of time on some issues like Ariel settlement block, and Har Homa in East Jerusalem. In addition there have been several private initiatives between Israelis and Palestinians with the most recent two states, one homeland iniative, previous ones was Geneva Accord between Yossi Belinei and former PA officials, former Shin Bet head Ami Ayalon(it's a shame that he barley lost to Ehud Barak in Labor primaries years ago) did an initiative launched in 2002 called people's voice with Palestinian professor Sari Nusseihb with 251,000 Israelis and 160,000 Palestinians signed it. The West Bank has also been mostly quiet since end of second intifada with most attacks lone gunmen attacks and Abbas maintaining security cooperation with Israel.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/711885432271832/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People's_Voice

While many in Hamas believe that and would like to do that, they don't have the capacity to destroy Israel since it doesn't have anything like tanks, f-15,f-16, or Apache helicopters. It has the capacity to wage a war of attrition against Israel by launching rockets. The reality of Hamas running a state in Gaza has caused it to moderate it's actions. As mentioned before on this form since November 2012 ceasefire ending Operation Pillar of Defense most rockets launched from Gaza Strip have been from ISIS aligned groups opposed to Hamas(exception was during crackdown on Hamas in West Bank during Operation Brothers Keeper following Hamas cell in Hebron not acting on Hamas central leadership kidnapping and killing three Jewish teenagers). Hamas doesn't want another operation cast lead or operation protection's edge which is why the few rockets launched lately have been from ISIS aligned groups. An example of this is that in the past Hamas would have launched rockets or conducted suicide bomber attacks in response to the recent attack on Palestinian village since it doesn't what to face Israeli retaliation(to be fair Israel doesn't want another operation protection edge which is why you see the most right wing Israeli gov loosening restrictions on Palestinians like allowing Palestinians to work in Israel).

 

Not as far as Likud is concerned.
According to their charter there will be no sovereign Arab state between the River and the sea.
Does that mean only Jews will be free?

 

Does not mean nor rainforce your claim that the Arabs dont consider Jews as "pigs". Agreements and initiatives can be agreed upon with no considaration about the personal view of people.
For exemple, Iran just recently made deal with America (and which now awaits for the approval of the congress), and yet such agreed deal didnt stopped Iran and it's leaders shout out loud "death to America" nor consider America as "the great Satan".

Oh and Arabs dont consider Jews as pigs? Think again, according to their holy book (Quran): Surah 2:65:

Surah 5:60:

Surah 7:166:

Source'1: http://quran.com/2/63-65
Source'2: http://quran.com/5/59-60
Source'3: http://quran.com/7/166

They also say such things out loud in their media:
[video=youtube;MS2t2e76o8I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS2t2e76o8I[/video]

BTW- I never said that all Arabs are considering Jews as pigs. There is a difference between "Arabs consider" and "all Arabs consider".

Lately it was ISIS who launched rockets, right. But the rockets that were fired before the last operation was by the Islamic Jihad + Hamas, which was the responsible to the rockets that targeted Tel-Aviv and so on. Lately also Hamas revealed a new terror tunnel inside of Gaza that ends near Israeli houses in the Iranian T.V.
Also Hamas in operation Cast Lead, they published a video which there they say that Be'er Sheva is an "occupied territory" that soon will be liberated by Hamas.

BTW- it is not a recent phenomenon that Israel is allowing "Palestinians" from Gaza to work in Israel. BUT just recently (in the previous government) Israel allowed to raise the amount of Arabs from Gaza that will have permits to work in Israel.

 

funny, as some Jews think Arabs are worth less than a Jewish finger nail.

 

When and where did I write that I accept such thing?

 

so you dont deny this?

 

Israel occasionally takes action against illegal outposts but doesn't take a serious effort to dismantle them with most of 105 illegal outposts in Sasson report mentioned haven't been dismantled.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisra... unauthorized outposts - talya sason adv.aspx

Even if Israel did dismantle all illegal outpost ; that wouldn't solve problem of extremist settlers when most of them come from settlements legal under Israeli law like Yitzhar, Itamar, and Hebron. They are known for harassing Palestinians especially Hebron and behind many of the price tag attacks. As noted before all of them have chief rabbis that endorsed, helped publish or write King's Torah which endorses killing non Jews including children.
http://imeu.org/article/state-sanctioned-incitement-israels-extremist-rabbis

 

Israel lets Jews harrass, attack, and beat non-Jews all the time.

The West Bank is like the Wild West, and Jewish extremists are welcome to act like bandits.

 

I never said there wasn't incitement in Arab media some more than others like Wahhbist Saudi Arabia or Hamas nor did I never deny that some Arabs associate Zionism and Israel with all Jews or all Jews with right wing apartheid(what I mean by that is right wingers that want Israel to annex West Bank without giving West Bank Arabs citizenship or most in the case of Jewish home or annexing West Bank and expelling Arabs in case of Kahaneists) vision of Israel. Some Muslims use these verses to say Jews are swine or pigs. However most hold these verses do not describe all Jews as swines or pigs. These Quran verses refer to a Jewish community living by the sea near present day Eilat. Many in the community broke Sabbath which is against Jewish law which God punished by turning them into pigs and monkeys(this verse is still problematic as it has God turning people into animals for the supposed sin of working on God's day but the bible also has many problematic verses at the same time too). Robert Spencer who is an author known for criticizing Islam noted
"In traditional Islamic theology these passages have not been considered to apply to all Jews. The classic Qur’anic commentator Ibn Kathir, whose commentary is widely distributed and respected among Muslims today, quotes earlier authorities saying that “those who violated the sanctity of the Sabbath were turned into monkeys, then they perished without offspring,” and that they “only lived on the earth for three days, for no transformed person ever lives more than three days.”
http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/01/are-jews-apes-and-pigs/

I mentioned the exception was during Operation Brother Keeper which was before Operation Protection Edge. Operation Brother's keeper was the crackdown on Hamas in West Bank in Israel following Hamas cell in Hebron not acting on orders from Hamas central leadership kidnapped and killed three Jewish teenagers. After the crackdown Hamas and Islamic launched rockets on Israel prompting Israel to respond with operation protection edge which left over 2,000 Palestinians dead(proportion of it civilians is disputed with Israelis claiming 56% civilians or unidentified, according to UN human rights committee claiming 65% civilians, and Hamas run Gaza health ministry claiming 70% civilians) and 66 Israeli soldiers and 6 civilian lives due to thousands of rockets launched by Hamas during operation protection edge. Hamas claiming Beer Sheva is occupied territory is nothing new or surprisingly after all their charter calls for Israel to be eliminated. There is a difference between wanting to do something and being able to do it. Hamas is a non state actor facing an organized state with one of the best well trained armies in the world that has heavy weapons like tanks, f-15,f-16, and Apache helicopters. Meaning Hamas simply doesn't have a chance to eliminate Israel or take over Israel. Since ceasefire ending operation pillar of defense in November 2012 Hamas has grudge come to realize that especially since it has responsibility of effectively running a de facto state in Gaza. I know this is not a recent phenomenon of allowing Palestinians from Gaza to work in Israel or loosening the blockade of Gaza in general with blockade ironically started by Olmert and has been loosened by all three right wing governments since first one in 2009.

Your point on personal viewpoint of people and agreements reminds me of British historian Martin Gilbert's book Israel: A history(a very good book and well balanced). It reminds me on the part where he cites Rabin as he was shaking his hand with Arafat in 1993 he said it was difficult as he was reminded he was shaking the hands of someone responsible for the death of many Israelis including women and children(Rabin referring to PLO attacks while Arafat was head of PLO).

 

When and where did I write thatI deny such thing?

 

Such illegal settlements that were proven as such, were evecueted or will be evecueted.

Those are their own personal views and not the view of the state. Hence, the state does not follow such views