Arizona Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners to Refuse Service to Gays Based on Relig

Recall that before the Civil War, both the abolitionists and the slaveholders were waving their bibles at one another and citing scripture suitable to their desires. Today, once again, it's Leviticus vs. Jesus. It's not rocket science figuring out that religion tells people that their emotional reactions are what their god intended -- whatever those reactions happen to be.

I see this as a battle between our intellects and our emotions. Our intellects value equality, respect, fairness. Our emotions make us hate and fear whatever is different enough. Everything else is rationalization.

 

Nice try.

Genetics made us all with the urge to procreate, and gave us one half of the toolset. The other half went to the other gender. I chose when I was born. It is not up to me to defend that, it is up to you to figure out why you decided to deviate from that, despite it being completely obvious what your tools were meant for.

 

Then why not just drop it? It's a done deal by now.

No, it was never about "tolerance", it was about legal equality. You know, the entire legal package of thousands of laws, regulations and precedents. Just like anyone else. Yes, marriage is marriage, considered the same because it IS the same.

And so I repeat, if people like you would simply understand that legal equality means legal equality, and that legal equality is not threatening, it's not special privileges for anyone, it's just ordinary equality, then there would be no controversy.

 

Some people are born infertile, and yet they still have a sex drive. In order to accept your logic, you will also have to argue that inherent infertility is a choice.

 

I already did defend it. I did not choose to be attracted to the same sex. Period. You can cry about that til the end of eternity, and it will not change.

Now, you can either live in reality or fantasy. Oh, and do tell me, what other choices did you make when you popped out of the womb? Do you remember?

This is getting really stupid, BTW.

 

This is simply not so. Like all sexually reproducing creatures, we evolved a poweful desire for sex. The procreation part is really a side-effect, and there are STILL girls who have no idea what caused their pregnancy.

Yes, this is so. But both genders have a sex drive.

The current best evidence is that your orientation was set before your were born.

Because orientation is not a decision. You yourself just admitted you were born heterosexual. No decision involved.

I doubt there are any homosexuals who aren't well aware of where babies come from, and what's involved. But knowledge and orientation are different things.

 

How about the Constitution is that simply irrelevant, what about the equality of those covered by the first amendment?

Would you support a KKK member suing an African American owned Bakery who refused service baking a cake for the Clan?

 

It's funny...from puberty until I got married to my wife....my urge was NOT "to procreate"...but have sex WITHOUT procreating.

 

Many opponents of same-sex marriage use the "gays can't procreate...they shouldn't be allowed to marry" argument...

and then get all tongue-tied when asked "Okay...so you'd ban infertile heterosexual couples from marrying, too...uh...right?"

 

Lets be clear about the facts here. Gay is not a skin color. There is zero proof that gay is anything but a choice. Given that there is no basis to argue for civil rights for gays. I bet the folks at NAMBLA are taking notes on these cases. You can apply the same logic to their "orientation". So all the claims of discrimination are rendered moot just by the basic facts here.

 

if so, Gay males would have no use for Semen and wouldnt be born producing it. Genetics shows males are born as half of the equation, while Females are the counterpart due to the way their bodies are genetically adapted to lubricate and house the penis without tearing like the thin walled Anus.

Sorry guys, Genetics backs Heterosexuality. Homosexuality is simply a deviant offshoot that was never intended. A dead ender. Practice it all you like, but dont expect the rest of us to pretend along with your delusions.

 

Well sure lol...noone wants a kid they arent ready for, but it changes little with regards to human genetic makeup. We are all born with the urges...we are all born with the appropriate equipment that we need for our half of the equation.

Then some people get confused .....

 

Attraction...lol. A mystical claim that cannot be shown, cannot be proven and somehow refutes the genetic evidence that human bodies all share. Sure. Perhaps what you are calling attraction is simply that you tried it and liked it.

People try things all the time, even things that the majority would find absurd and say no to. I'd never say yes to jumping out of a good plane, but some people do and love the thrill. perhaps they were born with an "attraction" to falling from the sky......

 

Yes, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you about any of this. Sexual orientation is not related to fertility.

Not really. Genetics endows (nearly) all of us with powerful sex drives. It's possible that nature is making a tradeoff between the power of the drive and the direction of the drive, so that in order to maximize the drive, a certain "error rate" in directing that drive becomes optimal. Certainly computer simulations suggest this.

What pretensions? What delusions? Whose intention? You aren't being very clear here. Non-heterosexual orientations have always been part of normal human variation. Always. The evidence is that if we could identify these people and exterminate every one of them overnight, the next generation would have just as many as this one.

 

Umm...no. I was attracted to the same sex well before I ever did anything sexual. Ya know, just like you were attracted to the opposite sex before you ever did anything sexual.

You really do want me to start posting studies, don't you? OK, have it your way:

BTW, easier to read if you go the link. Plus all the citations and such are there as well. Happy reading!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

 

Now you are just being silly. Sexual orientation is very real. Do you find women attractive? Or did you "just happen" to try it and "just happened" to like it? Speaking for myself, I know there came a time in my life when the girls started looking really different and really good. It wasn't a conscious decision. Worse yet, it wasn't something I could turn off when it was inconvenient.

 

Yes, of course....and I was born attracted to cigarettes. Takes all the responsibility for that choice off my shoulders, and the need to exlain why I would do so. Very convenient.

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We're all programmed that way Flint. Our bodies make up further confirms this as mentioned before. As with anything however, some go off the path and find enjoyment.

 

No, we're not all programmed like that. Not at all. Do keep living in dreamland though.

Wait- so now you're going to compare sexuality to an addiction? Wow. You just keep digging your hole deeper.

 

While I personally don't agree with discriminating against gays, a private business can do so and face any economic or social backlash there may be. However, codifying such discrimination is dumb and unconstitutional (See Romer v. Evans). If a state or municipality wants to protect a class of people (such as no discrimination based on sexual orientation) they may, but they don't have to which allows private actors to discriminate against any unprotected class.

 

So you are making the argument that the First Amendment grants everyone the constitutional right to violate the constitution? Great argument.

Yes, I would support the KKK member.

 

Dad May Join Two Moms for Disease-Free Designer Babies

If being Gay is genetic, they should be able to fix that soon.

 

Nope. We are nowhere near being able to understand enough about genetics to start making anything but the most minor changes to human beings. We can't even begin to hope to touch something as complex as sexual orientation for a long, long time.

 

Very irrelevant. Now, physical addictions DO become biological, in that they cause organic changes in our brains. And it's true that some babies born to mothers addicted to certain drugs, are born addicted.

We are certainly not all "programmed" to be heterosexual, anymore than we are all programmed to be right-handed and the lefties simply chose to wander off the path. But your comment does clarify some of your more baffling posts. It seems you simply do not believe in any sexual orientation different from your own. They must all be faking. And I can understand this, because I have the same reaction to those who cliam to believe in any gods. Naaah, they can't be serious, they MUST be pulling my leg, their claim is simply incomprehensible, not credible at all. There ARE no gods, how can anyone seriously claim to believe in some and expect to be believed?

You're the same way about homosexuality. And I guess you have to do what I do - take their word for it no matter how unlikely gods or homosexuality might seem.

 

I'm sure you'd like to think so. 16.1% vs 78.4%, looks like ya'all got a long, long, long way to go.

 

I confess I find that article kind of scary. As someone points out, once it's done it's in the germ plasm and is passed on forever. Given the potential for harm (imagine a genetic time bomb reaching fixation in the human population, and then resulting in sterility), I'd want a VERY long term testing program. And so I personally would hope for a VERY thorough understanding of why some people have always been gay, before I'd want to start fiddling with it. We'd be like the sorcerer's apprentice.