Basic Bottom Line Argument For God

The reason I believe in God is not because the Bible says so, or what they taught me in CCD, or what the priests tell us on Sunday.

So all arguments based on undermining the authority of the Bible or my Church will have no effect on me.

And you can line up all the bad Christians from history and tell me of their bad deeds and it won't change my mind.

And if you tell me God is evil because he allows evil to happen, I will consider it but it won't change my mind that he exists.

And if you tell me the Catholic Church is corrupt, I will respond, yes in many cases it has been, I learned that in Catholic school in fact.

But it won't change my mind.

Because the reason I believe in God is because there is no other reasonable explanation for why we are here, why the universe is here, and why the whole thing doesn't dissolve into chaos and disorder.

And I have never heard any atheist provide a reasonable alternative answer to any of these questions.

The only response from atheists -- EVER -- is the burden on us who believe in God to prove he exists.

Well the simple fact that we exist is all the proof I can offer and all the proof I need. We could not be here unless something caused us to be here. To say we got here, this universe got here, and nothing caused it -- well, that makes no sense at all.

So I put it again to atheists: What is your alternative explanation?

And if you don't have an alternative explanation, how can you be so sure you are right?

 

God of the gaps at its finest on display.

 

OK, you have come up with a name for my argument.

Do you have any way to dispute it?

 

Why couldn't invisible pink unicorns be responsible for the universe?

You are inserting a random solution completely without proof to fill a scientific gap.

That is the God of the Gaps fallacy.

Really I think wha this comes down to is that you don't understand the actual science behind science's explanation of how the universe works and where it came from. Science explains how the universe doesn't devolve into complete chaos and it's explanation has nothing to do with a possible God, let alone your arbitrary decision that it's the Catholic Christian God.

 

Blackrook, you just gave a fantastic explanation about why I am an Agnostic!

AH

 

Well, I never said this proves the Catholic Christian God. All I've proven is God. Perhaps there are more than one gods. Perhaps there are invisible pink unicorns. No way to know.

But there is some outside force that created the universe.

Unless you can prove to me that this universe is God, that's another possibility I suppose.

 

No need to dispute illogical fallacies, which is what the god of the gaps is.

 

Argument from ignorance?

For being so "intelligent", you use blatant fallacies as an argument.

 

I don't understand why an omnipotent, omniscient being that has no origin is a more believable source for the universe than natural forces/phenomena.

 

OK, explain what natural force caused the universe.

 

At its simplest, it's two forces: space expansion and high energy conversion into matter.

 

I think is the first time we agree on something!

Looking at the universe and believing it was just there, or it was created on its own from nothingness is less believable than God creating it. Do you honestly believe something like the universe could just be created randomly out of nothing?

And I agree so much with the part I underlined. Why is it only we need to prove God exists? Athiests believe God doesn't exist, so they should need to back it up too.

Salam

 

Could just transfer the traits that are necessary for god to exist to the rest of existence

Existing because it exists being a certain way that includes us existing as we do now

Can probably chop out a personality and commandments all together

 

Quantum fluctuations within a singularity.

Now, what force caused the existence of god?

 

A magic singularity that just popped into existence?

Wait - don;t singularity arise AFTER the creation of the universe?

Unwarranted certainty indeed.

By al means, can you tell us what existed before the Big Bang? Why do we have to?

Oh right, its more double standards.

Get that a lot with atheists.

 

yes belief in god is for those with only BASIC brain functions...

 

Well, you do need at least that to conprehend the idea ...

A realize that something created after the source ... cannot be the source.

Basic brain functions and all

 

You can't state that you've proven God one moment and then state that there is no way to know in the very next. Your hypothesis is for some kind of intelligence controlling the creation and/or on-going development of the universe. You've presented zero evidence regarding any of the specifics of that intelligence. For all your dismissal of Catholic doctrine, you can't avoid your thoughts being coloured by it.

Your second statement is correct - by the very common definition of gods, it would be perfectly possible for such a being to exist without any humans being aware but it is also perfectly possible for such a being not to exist. We can't know for certain.

There are lots of hypotheses about how the universe and everything in it came to (and continues to) be. Many of them do not require any form of external intelligence but, from this layman's point of view, still seem perfectly plausible. If anything, the hypothesis of a creating intelligence raises more questions that is answers (including the classic "What created God?").

Of course, I feel the whole basis of your position is in opposition to your image of atheism, which you seem to assume states with certainty that no gods exist, when that isn't at all a requirement. I happen to have no positive belief in the existence of any form of divine being (which makes "atheist" one of the countless descriptions that can be accurately attributed to me) but I don't claim to have absolute knowledge about anything in this field. After all, there is "no way to know".

 

So basically all you have to offer is that you don't know so god did it?

That's a pretty poor argument.

 

And your arguement (i.e. "no arguement") is even poorer.

 

And you're why I believe in the doctrine of election.

 

No it's not.

There's a quote about a fool and opening their mouth and a wise man knowing to be quiet.

 

Thats because the wiseman, had no arguement.

 

my reasons for not believing are basically the same as yours for believing .... kind of ... the God argument is not a reasonable explanation for me ... it doesn't actually answer the question for me.

that said ... I only ask for evidence when people try to present religion as an alternative to science.

there is no proof that god exists ... and there is no proof that he doesn't exist.

to me, it just makes more sense that he doesn't.

 

Thats because God hasn't acted on you.