Being Bled Dry

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by upside-down cake, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    I know I point out the flaws that I see, but it's usually always because I believe if they are addressed, a solution can be found. But recently, an idea struck me that made me believe the United States is, not will be, doomed.

    When I look at the rate the US debt has jumped, and I look at the bursting of bubbles- just some, mind you, not all- and then I remember the President asking for all this money only to give unbelievable amounts over to the same people that caused the problem who literally took it and ran with it, it seems like I am living in a shop that is closing down and everyone is trying to cash in. It feels like we are being squeezed dry.

    It's the money. I don't think there are just one or two scams, I think there are layers and layers of high level scams. For some reason, it feels like things are diving and the people who are going to take advantage of the dive will use up the last of America's worth before they jump ship and leave us to burn in the water.

    I could be wrong, but the last time they asked for money, it went no where. They'll ask for money again, and I can only imagine it will not go to the people, no matter who is in office. I think our military is being sold out as well. They are being hired to extend the interests of powerful groups. The American military seems to be nothing more than mercenaries.

    I think there is a huge squeee going on. People are bailing and squeezing as much cash from the system as they can and when it is over and they have no future need to pretend, the true extent of our nations debts and overwhelming problems will instantly become apparent. The bubbles will burst, our debts will fold, and Greece will look like a cigarette burn compared to the bonfire that will be the US.

    I suppose that was particularly gloom and doomish, but it really feels like that is going to happen. Like that is what is happening, right now.
     
  2. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    The Tea Party blames government. The 99% blames Wall Street. Each has half the problem.

    Government has grown large enough to squeeze business with taxes (a little) and regulation (a lot). To the public's benefit - no. For bribery. "Campaign contributions", well paid positions a lobbyist, seats on the boards of directors, jobs for friends and family, etc. etc, etc....

    But, free market competiton limits the amount of money businesses could spend on politicians and regulators. Government provided the regulation that minimized / eliminated competition. Raised barriers to entry.

    Did the "Affordable Care Act" reduce costs, or increase them? Medical companies, insurance companies, and government get richer.

    Not to be left out, unions have moved to the public sector. No worries about competing with China, or the non-union shop down the street. Politicians increase pay, benefits, and retirement - unions feed much of that money back to the politicians in contributions, floods of commercials, and kushy jobs.

    Has increased spending on education, improve education - or make it worse?


    Where does the money come for all this - the consumer / the tax payer.


    The left and right have drawn up the battle lines. Created vitriolic talking points that assure no center ground. The media, captured by business interests, are no longer the watch dog, they are rewarded by feeding the fire.

    The voters are kept busy fighting each other, blaming each other - scapegoating each other.

    This situation is unsustainable, and it will fail catastrophically. The money promised for SSI, Medicare, T-Bill's, etc. will not be there.

    It will be a long, bumpy night.
     
  3. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    I think you are very right. If were are circling the drain, each part of our society contributes to it in various ways. The blame game only means we are going to go down yelling at each other. I say, perhaps, that the way to help fix the problem and perhaps escape this path is by sacrifice. No one wants to sacrifice. Each side has something they feel they must have and won't part with it. I think nothing short of something like a depression era will occur before things get better. Just like a person who is heavily in debt, he will have to bunker down and live the hard life for a while before he can regain a sense of normalcy.

    I really agree with all you said and there's more to it. There's layers of convoluted policies, agencies, and the like that seem counter-productive and entangling. To fix one you have to battle four others, and any attempt usually exhausts the person who actually tries.

    It seemed like the people at the top see this, know this, and are like there's no way, so they will go for self and squeeze what more they can out of us before leaving us in the wind. The wealthy and powerful can simply expatriate. They aren't really that much more apart of this nation than any other, they have connections all over. But we'll be left to deal with it, and even then, as a third world country, we'll then feel the real hammer of exploitation when the powerful come to do to us as we done to them. Then, there might not be an escape for a very long time.
     
  4. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    We each have a choice.

    We can drink the party koolaid, put our faith in politicians, and ride our self righteousness into oblivion. In the last 15 years, both the Republican and Democrats had virtual control - did either party fix anything?

    We can bury our head in the sand, go into oblivion.

    We can realize that "the other side" is not evil incarnate. Dial down the venom, and lets actually talk to each other and come up with solutions. When the Tea Party and 99% agree, that is news. Their agreement will put politicians on the spot to describe why our solutions won't work.
     
  5. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    The United States is an idea whose time has come and gone. Half of the people in the country are on the dole in one form or another. No polity can continue with such a large dependent class dragging it down.
     
  6. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    It's too late for that. Too much has happened to embitter both sides. There will not be peace under any set of circumstances. The Democrats think they have the Republicans on the run. They won't compromise. They want victory. Better to give them scorched earth.
     
  7. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    But the biggest problem is that our entire political body is bought, it seems, or the significant parts that matter. I tend to thing of our government as Government Inc. and all the large corporations, industries, and financial big hats have bought up controlling shares of the business. That's why I usually say it doesn't matter who you vote for. Whether you drink coke or pepsi, your money still goes to the same person.
     
  8. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    I think they thrive on it, polticians. The things they do...like the stand-offs that they have and the complete childishness of it all. It's wasy to think they are stupid, but these are among the most educated people in our times. Just my opinion, but I think it's a big act. They are playing dumb, and play-fighting.
     
  9. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    I used to fervently love America. I still do in a nostalgic sense. But that's mostly been swept away now. I've detached myself from the idea of America in order to save myself from sadness. I guess I see myself now as post-American. All it requires is to stop caring. But I find myself being drawn back into these terrible emotions because of my raging hatred for those I hold responsible for the death of what I once loved.

    The love is gone. The hatred remains.
     
  10. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

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    Taxes are at 60 year lows, and regulation has seen a lot of deregulation done to it, when the agencies with the job of oversight haven't been made toothless.
     
  11. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    As long as they have us fighting each other, the politiicians are authorized to fight each other (on camera - afterwords they probably laugh at us over drinks).

    Lets try something different. Instead of each side reciting their talking points, lets let the left define who should be on the dole and the right define what regulations provide financial safety and health.

    Instead of defining the tax rate, lets let the left define what the government should do, and what it should cost - then compare that to what the government does and what it does cost. Lets use real numbers, not the hand waving crap both sides of the isle throw around.

    Instead of giving corporations free reign to define their own regulations, let define regulations that protect and serve the public. Lets read the regulation, not the pretty sounding title.


    As I said before, each side has had a shot at pretty much unfetterd power, did they do what their constituents wanted? Have the Republican's reduced spending? Did the Democrats cure poverty? Or, did each side pander to their special interests.

    Did the things the politicians said they did, actually turn out like they said they would?
     
  12. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I too, have lost the respect and admiration for America (USA). My main disappointment are the brutal wars they start and fight... one after the other. But it is the corruption in high places that is most disgusting and revolting.
    This morning I came upon an article in The Nation which sheds some light into the horribly deceiving financial crisis in the US. It talks about former Senator Phil Gramm and his wife Wendy how they, through their decisive actions in cooperation with president Clinton, set in motion the financial crisis that would go viral through the entire system, as well as almost deadly impale Europe.
     
  13. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    It was only 12 years ago that we had a balanced budget and could have started paying down on the debt, and I can still remember all the reasons Bush floated for not doing so. He even stated that he would maintain a balanced budget "unless we have a war", knowing full well that we were going to have that war. The other reasons were that the supply side needed to be goosed (by providing tax breaks for the producers), and we didn't want to pay pre-payment penalities on the debt money. In other words, Bush did an Iraq War build-up thang on the American economy.

    In other words, Bush and Norquist declared war on the American economy with the intention of "starving the beast". It was all ideological and intentional, but they succeeded. We are f'd up big time now.
     
  14. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    The US citizens are statistics, that's it. We aren't real people. When we become people again, we become a great country again. The only way to achieve this is to reduce the power of the both the Democratic and Republican party. George Washington himself warned against the devastation a party system could eventually employ. We are there.
     
  15. akphidelt2007

    akphidelt2007 New Member Past Donor

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    Data does not match anything you say. We produced almost a quarter of the world's output last year and we still have the most robust economy in the world. This debt you are worrying about is a logical fallacy. If you think the country is doomed because we have large amounts of debt in our own made up currency than you simply just do not understand how our economy works. And the funniest thing is if anything you said were true you would see our debt with massive rates like Greece or Spain... but amazingly we have yields around 1%, historically some of the lowest yields we've ever had. So apparently your thought process of "doom" does not coincide with reality. We will be fine. We have a frikkin gadget maker that is the world's largest company (AAPL). That doesn't happen in country's that are doomed... lol.
     

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