I've been studying the Bible to see if Christianity is valid as of late, and I've come across confusing issues for which I am still trying to work out. There are several problems which I think are quite pressing. 1) Jews use the Masoretic Text which doesn't have a number of the prophecies of Jesus in it, especially those in Zechariah and Isaiah 53. 2) Protestants also use the Masoretic Text however their verses regarding prophecies of Jesus in Zechariah and Isaiah 53 are there, seemingly taken from the Septuagint which otherwise Protestants say isn't reliable. 3) What evidence do we have that the current Jewish theological views on the Messiah are historically consistent with those of the time of and before Jesus, because Jewish theology for many hundreds of years and longer are that Jesus does not meet the requirements of the Jewish Messiah? If Jews are wrong about the criteria of the Messiah, why? 4) If Bibles don't all share the relevant prophecies of Jesus, then why believe Jesus is God? Wouldn't prophecies of him if he was God certainly be present in all scriptures, regardless of the origin of the translation, especially according to the Protestant idea that if we do not accept Jesus as Lord, we are doomed to hell fire?
In the OT when it references the "suffering servant" that's not Jesus.. that Israel.. There is no reference to Jesus in the OT.. The Jewish messiah was to be an anointed warrior king like King David who would drive out the Romans.
Depends on which Bible you have, that's the problem. Christians believe it to be prophecy about the life of Jesus on earth. - - - Updated - - - I found an interesting Wiki page on the apparent change of Jewish theology over time regarding the Messiah.
And how else could you read Mark 15:34 in context? Did Jesus not cry out in a loud voice? Is Isaiah right, or is Mark right? This is only one of the many contradictions of the Bible. Maybe Mark had it wrong. Maybe Isaiah had it wrong. But you can not say that they were both right without some serious philosophical contortions. Is the Bible infallible, or is it contradictory?
KJV is the Bible I use.. Read Isaiah 53 in context.. Israel is repeatedly called the suffering servant.
Mark 15 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus shouted with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?”, which being translated is “My God, My God, for what purpose did You forsake Me?”
You understand that Christians take that chapter as a prophecy of Jesus rather than it's in reference to Israel?
On this I actually don't take an issue with the Bible. Each of the Gospel authors wrote it from his own perspective, perhaps emphasizing some things over others. Mark 15:34 is actually a quotation of Psalm 22:1.
An example of Biblical translation discrepancies I have encountered regarding Old Testament prophecies of Jesus: Zechariah 12:10 according to the NASB. The KJV reads similarly, I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. The Jewish Bible reads, And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born. So the prophetic angle is completely wiped out in the Jewish Bible.
The Jews are the ones who rejected their Messiah. God Himself called them a stiff necked people. They were disobedient to God over and over again. It's a wonder He didn't destroy them.
That's fine but I'm trying to work through differences in Messianic prophecy between Judaism and Christianity and why their Bibles have key differences.
This is the most relevant question. People believe because they want to believe, and they only believe the parts of the Bible they like and not the parts they don't like. It does not matter if it is true or not.
Yeah, because that's what a god worth worshipping would do -- slaughter an entire people. Doesn't that strike you as immoral?
Depends on the translation and the translators for that matter. https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/prophecy/jewish-messianic-interpretations-of-zechariah-1210 http://www.therefinersfire.org/rabbinical_revisionism.htm http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/m.sion/ze12jmi.htm
There is nothing outside the Bible that independently verifies Jesus even existed. The Bible therefore cannot be any more self-authenticating than the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
•“You are My servant, O Israel” (41: •“You are My servant, Israel” (49:3) (3) He was despised and rejected of men, a man of pains and accustomed to sickness. As one from whom we would hide our faces, he was despised, and we had no regard for him. This fits the Jews, not Jesus because the Bible tells us... the New Testament account which describes Jesus as immensely popular (Matthew 4:25). “Large crowds” of people came from far and wide to hear him speak, and Jesus had to sail into the water to avoid being overrun by the crowds (Mark 3:7-9). Luke 2:52 describes him as physically strong and well respected, a man whose popularity spread and was "praised by all" (Luke 4:14-15). A far cry from Isaiah’s description of “despised and rejected.”
Another, this from Isaiah 53: New International Version: 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many,and made intercession for the transgressors. Jewish Bible: 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand: 11 Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Aside from this is an entirely different topic regarding Jewish belief that the Messiah would only come once as opposed to the two appearances believed in by Christians.
In context Isaiah is talking about the return of the Jews from exile.. and struggling like a sapling tree to take root. This imagery of a tree struggling to grow in dry earth is a metaphor for the Jewish struggle in exile. A young sapling in dry ground appears that it will die. The Jews were always a small nation, at times as small as 2 million people, threatened with extinction. In this verse Isaiah describes Israel’s miraculous return from exile, like a sapling that sprouts from this dry ground. This idea appears throughout the Jewish Bible (see Isaiah 60:21, Ezekiel 19:13, Hosea 14:6-7, Amos 9:15). And,, (4) Indeed, he bore our illnesses and carried our pains – but we regarded him as diseased, stricken by God and afflicted.
I'm familiar with Jewish anti-Missionary apologetics, thanks. I have Tovia Singer coming out of my ears. I'm trying to figure out 1) why there are differences between the two Bibles, and 2) the views of ancient Judaism regarding the Messianic figure.
