Birth Control Policies at Boot Camp Affect Military Readiness

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, May 15, 2019.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    ...or at least that's the title of a rather awkward subject line.


    Birth Control Policies at Boot Camp Affect Military Readiness, Study Finds

    However the first line tells the real tale.

    Army soldiers have more babies in their first two years of enlistment and miss more work as a result than do women in the other military branches, a finding researchers say is linked to different service policies on birth control education and access at basic training.

    Between 2013 and 2016, the birth rate among soldiers in the first two years of military service ranged between 10.1% and 11.4%, while the combined rate for women in the other branches hovered at around 6.4%.

    The higher rate among soldiers resulted in an additional .04 deliveries, 3.7 more days of postpartum leave and 28.2 more pregnancy-related non-deployable days per service woman trained than for sailors, airmen and Marines, said Dr. Tim Roberts, a retired Navy commander who now works at Children's Mercy Kansas City.


    Maybe birth control should be mandatory (at least for the first term) for female military members? Otherwise it seems that we're wasting a lot of money and time for people who become non deployable due to pregnancy and childbirth.
     
  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Not just no, but hell no.

    If somebody decides to start a family, the government has no right to tell them no. In the military or not.
     
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  3. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, I understand your point, Mike. But when the rubber hits the road - when we have a war to fight - female service members contribute a lot.

    Cost of doing business is the way I see it.

    Seth :salute: :flagus:
     
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  4. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    No need for that, just give her a discharge.
    If I can take this to mean the battle readiness of a coed military is superior to that of an all male military, tell me how.
     
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  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    More warm bodies.

    Its not like the military is rejecting hordes of applicants.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  6. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nurses, for example, which is a female-dominated field. But in most non-combat fields - from technical, to intelligence, to many other support fields, they do their duty with distinction. I'm not saying females make our battle readiness superior to that of an all-male military, but they fill these critical support roles just as well as males. I have nothing but respect for females who faithfully serve our country in the military.
     
  7. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    There are not more warm bodies in a million person coed military than there are in a million man military.
     
  8. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    All we ever worried about back in the day was Salt Peter seasoning the chow, and it had little effect on training or readiness.
     
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  9. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Unless you think men do not, I wonder what point there is in saying it.
     
  10. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The point is that the bottom line is that they're Americans who have the honor of serving their country.

    I did it, and I've never regretted it, and I would do it again. I wouldn't want to exclude any American from that honor just because they were female.
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    The Army failed to reach its recruitment goal last year, and the Navy looks about to follow suit.

    Without women, they'd not only be in worse shape, but they'd likely be lowering their standards for men as well.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Why? Not a very realistic response, loosing all of the money and time spent training them, only to cut them loose because they decide to start a family.

    It does not work that way. Can you prove it is less capable than one that is not?

    Actually, that is much more so in the civilian world than it is in the military.

    In the military, male nurses (RN) make up about 35% of the staff. Compare that to on the civilian side, where only 5.4% are men. Of course, in the military it is because far more who choose medical decide to go more towards the "combat arms" dedicated medical areas. Medics, Corpsmen, and other positions that in the civilian world are closer to EMT-LVN than that of an RN (which in the military requires a college degree and a commission as an officer).

    I spent the last 6 years in military medical units. Interestingly enough, the norm today in a CASH (modern version of a MASH) is not to have a Doctor as the Commanding Officer. Every one I have ever been assigned to or worked with was commanded by an RN (and also by a female). This makes a lot of sense, as it frees all of doctors from having to handle all of the routine administrative stuff, and concentrate on actually healing people.

    The old days of Colonel Potter MD commanding a field hospital are long over and done with. Today, that would be done by a Lieutenant Colonel Houlihan RN.
     
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  13. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I see what you did there
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's not just birth control during training, it's also birth control policies on the battlefield.
    These days the U.S. has been engaging in a lot of military interventions in the Middle Eastern region of the world.

    Some of these women are going to be captured, and they better be prepared for it.

    You know how things are in that part of the world...

    I don't want to have to see Planned Parenthood outreach offices in all the U.S. bases operating in the war zone.
    Is Planned Parenthood going to be like the new Red Cross??
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  15. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    But that isn't what you said.
    There's always the draft.
    For copulating with a service member; and if that isn't a breach of military protocol, it should be.
    She didn't just decide to do that, she also decided to become physically disabled for several weeks.
    Setting aside the emotional undercurrents that attend a coed military, I'd say a military with a nonzero percentage of members who can get pregnant is less capable than a military with no members who can get pregnant, all else being equal. Wouldn't you?
    AFAIK, all I did was point out the obvious.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the men should tie it in a knot?

    Dear Gods and little fishes! What next?
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So, if you are in the army we will just sterilise you in case you are captured and raped yes?
     
  18. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything thing about sterilization? Title says birth control. The one thing people forget about is when you join the service you do give up a certain amount of personal liberties and freedoms. You no longer get to divide many aspects of your life that many take for granted.
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes and does that include giving up sex?
     
  20. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    While on duty. When I was in you still had to ask for permission to get married. If you live off base you NCO had to inspect the place you rented before moving in. If you went to beach and got a bad enough sunburn that you had to go on sick call you were punished. There were off limits buisness you could not go to. When you enlist you agree to do what ever the hell they say you do. I do not think it is asking to much if they would rather you not be pregnant and deployable for your first enlistment. Now if you decide to go for retirement, I get wanting a family. But a pregnant woman on light duty is of very little use to the military.
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Men don't become non deployable because they father a child. They still have to do their jobs and get sent overseas.
     
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  22. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I have the upmost respect for women and think very highly of the ones that decide to serve in the military. But I absolutely hated the 1 year I was in a unit that had women in it. We are told they can do anything a man can do, but in airborne school men had to do pull ups because you need to be able to pull yourself up on the straps to steer your chute, but women only had to be able hang. Not a single one did a pull up. They did not help putting up a GP medium tent, to heavy. In old the never carried the pig or were required to carry the barrel or ammo for it. Things just simply went smoother in an all male unit. Even your pt was better and harder. When I was in Bragg they ran the hell out of you and got you in far better shape.
     
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  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh sure they can. It happened to me.

    When I was transferred to the Fleet in 1987, I was originally assigned to 1/2. But while I was in-processing I discovered they were about to go on a 6 month Med Cruise, and my son was due in 3 months.

    So I requested a change to another unit, and it was granted. I was able to be there when my son was born, and then deployed with my new unit (2/2) 6 months later.

    Requests like this are regularly granted for men. They simply move them to a unit that is leaving on a deployment at a later (or even earlier) date. Out of all the times I deployed or left on extended operations, I can not think of a single father that was not accommodated in requests like this.

    And most women are only non-deployable for 3 months after giving birth. Most after that are put in that status for other reasons, such as being part of the EFMP. Which by the way applies to men as well as women. I am in the EFMP, but I am still deployable. My only restriction is that I can not be permanently assigned to a location more than 30 miles from a major medical center because my wife has a history of cancer.
     
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On the contrary.

    That's what the UCMJ is.
     
  25. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Really? Exactly what article is that exactly?

    The ability of the military to dictate something like this ended well before WWII.

    But out of curiosity, exactly what Article of the UCMJ would that fall under? And do not even try to say "Article 134", since that is very specific in what is required to meet those standards.

    And since the UCMJ by default follows the US Code, what part of the US Code allows the government for forbid somebody from having children? Can you show me any case law (military or civilian) where having children is prejudicial to the "good order and discipline" of the armed forces?

    My own beliefs aside, your claims make no sense. Simply throwing out something like "UCMJ" does not back your claim, unless you can actually state something in it that backs your claim.

    And do not even try Article 92. I myself have gotten out of Article 92 charges in the past.
     

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