Black Hole Drive

Discussion in 'Science' started by Zo0tie, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    Obviously this technology is for the far future. But it seems to be theoretically possible and certainly solves a huge number of problems that come up when you talk about anti-matter propulsion. I saw an episode of Through the Wormhole and realized the direct conversion of matter to energy did not require the manufacture and use of anti-matter. Granted playing with a micro-black hole isn't particularly safe either. I wouldn't allow one any more than 10 AU from a planet. But the neat thing is that it's within the size range of current human effort if not technology. A million metric tons is about the mass of 5 oil tankers. Just shovel in hydrogen protons and out comes energy. Discuss.
    http://www.universetoday.com/45571/black-hole-drive-could-power-future-starships/
     
  2. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    The article talks about "powered by thousands of square kilometers of solar panels" that are "charging for a few years". Then after creating the black hole, the "black hole would immediately begin to disgorge all the energy that was compressed to form it." This doesn't sound like a power source as much a big battery or capacitor.
     
  3. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    However the capacitor can be constantly recharged by firing a beam of high energy protons at it. The mass rate to feed the black hole will be far less than the energy needed to create it because e=mc^2. That maintains stability. Of course it is still radiating energy at a steady rate based upon it's size, like an engine with a broken throttle. Then I came up with a solution. Use two micro black holes in orbit around each other. Adjust the proton feed beams to change the orbital distance between them. As they get closer together their orbital velocities go up. Relativistic physics predicts that time will then slow down for them resulting in slower energy output and longer wavelengths of the energy released relative to us. It wont ever go to zero but could reach a decent 'idle' speed. Then when you want to go to your next destination reverse the process and shovel in the protons. Full speed ahead!
     
  4. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

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    Interesting! Btw - Through the Wormhole is a pretty decent series. I have the 1st three seasons and found all of them a good view.

    Something else that kind of fun to toy with are White Holes, which are kind of like the mirror image of a black hole, symmetric about the singularity - or kind of like a black hole running backwards in time. Imagine the entire universe's mass-energy/spacetime expansion as proceeding out of a white hole produced at the big bang singularity from an existing black hole in a parent "budding" universe, or even from a black hole produced from an entire contracting universe. Wild speculation, fer sure. But fun to play with.

    Here is a universe budding our universe via a black hole, where all of the energy of our universe is expanding from a white hole which was the result of the mass-energy from the parent universe that was drawn through the black hole's singularity. The black hole's singularity corresponds to our big bang singularity. It's interesting since it doesn't depend on something popping into existence out of nothing and thus doesn't represent a violation of the conservation of energy.

    [​IMG]

    White holes are simply an extension of the Schwarzschild solution to the Einsten field equations that gave us the notion of black holes in the first place - the so called maximally extended Schwarzschild solution.

    Oooops!!! My bad I apologize for wandering off topic.
     
  5. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    This is a crude diagram of what I have in mind. The two orbiting black holes can be moved to the front for deceleration.
    Zo0ties starship.jpg
     
  6. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    I think we should call it "Chris Cornell Drive".

    :)
     
  7. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    Ummmm...'kay.:confusion:
    I'm sure that's very clever to someone but i don't get it.:hmm:
     
  8. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    the protons are not what imposses the 'speeed'..... (that'd be crank to a latenighter)

    the fields are what are associating to ACCELERATE the mass (see the mercury orbit (old news))
     
  9. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    they suck


    i watched 2, wrote the production company and told them carl was honest, not an idiot

    the Model is easily found wrong because of simple word "conservation"
     
  10. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    You do realize that Hawking radiation is a controversial theory? Not all physicists agree.
    There have been a few reasons put forth to why Hawking radiation may not exist.
     
  11. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Since it is impossible for a Space Craft to travel faster than light speeds in Normal Space/Time...and because of the multiple Light Year distances that Star Systems are away from Earth...the closest being over 4 light years...as well as the inherent dangers to the human body of the needed acceleration to even be able to get to a neighboring star system....the highest acceleration at a rate to keep astronauts from dying would still take over a 500 years to get to the nearest star system...it would all mean that VIABLE Interstellar Travel could not be performed and that a GRAVITIC DRIVE would be required.

    The current theory is to use an Isotopes of Element 115 and bombard it with Protons and Antimatter.

    This isotopes supposedly can exhibit the STRONG FORCE OF GRAVITY...which is little known as Gravity is generally known as the Weak Force.

    This method will generate a Multiversal Matter/Antimatter Cascade Reaction as there is not enough Antimatter in our Universe to create a reaction large enough to duplicate a Gravity Well of sufficient strength to be generated directionally to allow a space craft to FOLD SPACE/TIME....thus the craft is not moving but rather will fold space/time from point to point allowing a craft to instantaniously travel to a given destination.

    AboveAlpha
     
  12. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Element_115

    Can I come and live with you?
    [video=youtube;tYv2lHO7xSo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYv2lHO7xSo[/video]

    just joking!:wink:
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The WIKI link has old information.

    LINK...http://www.aip.org/pnu/2004/split/672-1.html

    As you can see in the link...Element 115 is VERY REAL.

    There are 4 known isotopes.

    LINK...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununpentium

    This Element that has an Atomic Number of 115...that means 115 Protons and 115 Electrons...but has a relative Atomic Mass of 288.

    LINK....http://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/115/ununpentium

    Relative Atomic Mass is calculated by taking the average number of every known Isotopes of an Element...Isotopes of an Element is the different variations of the element existing with a different Atomic Mass...atomic mass being the total number of Protons and Neutrons.

    So with Element 115...if all 4 known Isotopes' Atomic Masses of this element are averaged we get an Relative Atomic Mass of 288. If more Isotopes are discovered of this element then this Relative Atomic Mass will change due to the recalculation.

    Now although many consider the story told by Bob Lazar...LINK...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar ....to be untrue and a fabrication it should be noted that Bob Lazar detailed the existence of Element 115 before it had been discovered.

    As well LOGIC dictates Lazar to be the real deal...as well as the Telephone Books of Los Alamos.

    But here is the REAL TELL.

    Bob Lazar...now dead...had offers to write books...do TV specials...public appearances....YOU NAME IT...and these offers would have pain him....MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    Now Lazar NEVER TOOK MONEY FOR ONE SINGLE OFFER...and if Lazar had made up this story he would have CASHED IN! Instead he was never seen or heard from and was a recluse.

    No one makes up such a story and doesn't cash in as that would be the reason to make up a story...UNLESS THE STORY WAS NOT MADE UP.

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    This whole topic is what's known as 'stupid.'
     
  15. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I am one of the biggest skeptics you would ever meet.

    But after the enactment of the Freedom of Information act...huge amounts of information were made available detailing much of this information.

    AboveAlpha
     
  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not if you understand the concepts, and have some level of imagination......scientific inquiry is far from "Stupid".
     
  17. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately some will always see it as so.

    What most people do not know nor do they seem to want to know is just how high a level of technology the U.S. Military Black Programs have achieved and have reached.

    Some of these programs are so advanced that they will remain classified for multiple decades to come.

    As an example...the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird...still listed as the worlds fastest fixed wing aircraft as well also having the flight altitude record...as well as being the first aircraft to employ STEALTH Technology...was designed in the late 1950's.

    Just image what is flying now.

    AboveAlpha
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Likely.....the "Brilliant Buzzard" is flying out there somewhere. Mach 3+.....twice the size of the SR-71, and possibly a space launch platform.
     
  19. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have no need for such things in the foreseeable future: fusion will do us fine.

    Perhaps in a few hundred/thousand years?
     
  20. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    Well, considering that I have a MS in cosmology and am a semi-pro science fiction author, I'd say I'm lacking in neither.

    The idea of manipulating a black hole for anything, let alone FTL travel, is nonsensical.

    (A word of caution: those personalities you see on the documentaries like to mix science with heaping doses of cleverly misguided speculation. For the networks, ratings come first.)
     
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am well aware of the theoretical nature of science entertainment, understand the conceptual nature of the "Shows", and was not debasing your abilities...I was explaining a reasoning for continuing this conversation as I find it interesting. Your background in cosmology should also allow you some level of intrigue in a conversation about interstellar travel...one would think.

    When we look at the incredible advances over the last 50 yrs......harnessing gravity for our own purpose is not out of the question.
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you as far as manipulation of a black Hole...LOL! That IS ridiculous!

    But an Isotopes of Element 115 having an ability to demonstrate the...STRONG FORCE OF GRAVITY...upon it's bombardment with High Energy Protons...and then using it in a Matter/Antimatter reaction...and if you have a MS then you should know that there is not enough Antimatter in the Universe to be used in a Reaction such as this to generate the sufficient energy required to be used to represent Mass...in order to create a Gravity Well of enough strength to Fold Space/Time enough to allow a craft to jump multiple light years point to point.

    This Antimatter issue is resolved as the isotopes of Element 115 in such a reaction exhibiting Gravitational Strong Force does so in multiple Divergent Universal States thus creating a Multiversal Energy Generating Cascade which is in line with Quantum Particle/Wave Form multiple function ability and transference.

    This also explains to a great deal how the realities of Quantum Mechanics are specific to a Multiversal System as well how say...Photons exist as both Particle and Wave and as a particle exist at Infinite Points along their Wave Packet Frequency Curve.

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    This whole idea of it being a gravity rather than an electromagnetic field, is stupid. It's comparable to the Ionocraft, that students can create

    at home.

    What is cute, is they create the element 115 in the lab. It is not found in nature. Meaning the gravity required of QM to create an element (to overcome strong force) has been proven wrong and the armchair wannabe physics people, DO NOT sustain the evidence.

    There is a bunch on this element since its first creation there have been many pseudoscience people that do not comprehend the fields (electromagnetic) and sling the gravity ideology to the system. The half life is in the ms range and a lousy fuel.

    What to note is the 'field' created by the elements creation which is what they are considering an anti gravity, is just electromagnetic. The way to prove that is at the decay. Anyone have the physics background to guestimate which wavelength it is?
     
  24. carloslebaron

    carloslebaron New Member

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    Obviously this technology is for the far future. But it seems to be theoretically possible and certainly solves a huge number of problems that come up when you talk about anti-matter propulsion. I saw an episode of Through the Wormhole and realized the direct conversion of matter to energy did not require the manufacture and use of anti-matter. Granted playing with a micro-black hole isn't particularly safe either. I wouldn't allow one any more than 10 AU from a planet. But the neat thing is that it's within the size range of current human effort if not technology. A million metric tons is about the mass of 5 oil tankers. Just shovel in hydrogen protons and out comes energy. Discuss.
    http://www.universetoday.com/45571/b...ure-starships/

    Do you know what?

    I'm really tired of such expressions like " this will be done by future generations"... "future technology will prove this and that"... "we don't have the proper technology yet but if..."

    All those theories implying "futuristic scenarios" are mere assumptions without scientific value, they are philosophy because invite to weird discussions, religion because several people believe in those theories and there are no facts to support them, imaginations because nothing real back up those statements, fantasies, talking garbage, etc.

    In other words, if not proven or having facts as a back up, then these theories can't be in a science forum and less in any curriculum where science is involved.

    Could you accept that "future technology will prove the existence of God?" I don't think so.

    The same as well, I can tell you that all this fuss about black holes. wormholes, traveling in time, etc. are nothing but mere fantasies.

    Cheers.
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    This contains the explanation real or imagined....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

    AboveAlpha
     

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