Brexit: Theresa May's deal is voted down

Racism against which race? And which 'asylum seekers' or 'refugees' did Hitler attack?

Jews were already living in Germany and eastern Europe, the people Farage and millions of others are protesting against are not British residents or citizens. Your false analogies and over the top responses only serve to undermine your argument. Sensible people everywhere have long recognized these sophomoric Hitler (fascist, racist) comparisons for what they are.

 

Strictly speaking, Airbus have said that they will look into relocating. What will likely happen will be that production of existing models will continue but new models will be assigned elsewhere. It's the same message that companies like Nissan, Toyota and Honda are saying.

I don't expect there to be a calamitous drop in industrial production, but I do expect that UK growth will be 1% or 2% lower than it otherwise would be but the compound effect over 20 years would be an economy 30% or 40% lower than it otherwise would have been so instead of being on a par with Germany, by then we'll be on a par with Poland or Czech republic.

 

I have no idea which part was photo-shopped or if any of it was. I go by the words people use and, in any case, would be unlikely to follow whatever interpretation you came up with. Just post something Farage actually said that could be interpreted as Hitlerism and we can discuss that.

 

Even it it's true, that doesn't matter, those taxes have been spent, they're not sitting in some account somewhere - never mind that the wealthiest will have done their best to avoid paying the taxes they owe.

They will come back to the UK, soak up as many NHS and other local services as they can, collect their pensions and be relatively economically inactive.

BTW, I can dream of quite a lot of taxes - I've been a high rate tax payer for 30 years.

 

The same thing is happening all over the EU. Staying or leaving will not change that but leaving would make it easier for each country to make their own hard decisions.

 

The suggestion is that the UK would have a huge net influx of pensioners whereas other countries would have a huge net influx of workers. The latter would be a significant boost to that country's economy the former would be a significant drag.

 

They haven't spent them or used them up. If the government have used them up, it's their problem. You are assuming they're gonna heavily use the NHS which doesn't make sense.

 

Of course they're going to may heavy use of the NHS, use of NHS correlates with age.

 

Churchill will be turning in his grave the way the government are fumbling on with Brexit. Just leave.

 

Culture tends to come first and, if not, then it's climate. Few goo too Britain for the climate.

 

You accused Farage inter alia of racism and I've asked you for an example of it?? So back to you, and don't try and squirm out of it again!

 

True, the climate isn't great but there are a number of issues in play associated with a no-deal Brexit which would mean that pensioners who have retired to the EU are likely to come back to the UK.

• Right now, UK citizens living abroad enjoy reciprocal healthcare arrangements in their country of residence. In the event of a no-deal Brexit, they would lose their healthcare coverage and would presumably have to arrange private health insurance - presumably at great cost given their age
• Pensioners living in the EU have their state pensions increased in line with the triple lock (the greatest of inflation, average wages or 2.5%). In the event of a no-deal Brexit, their pensions would be frozen at their current value
• It's likely that pensioners receive their pension income in sterling. In the event of a no-deal Brexit, it's likely that the pound will drop significantly against the Euro and so their income will be significantly lower in local currency. A large number of retirees have already repatriated themselves for exactly this reason following the fall in the value of the pound after the result of the Brexit referendum

Of course if the EU becomes too expensive, they could retire elsewhere but they're likely to encounter the same kinds of issues.

 

You already replied to the answer I gave! Your memory is crap

So back to your claim that you keep ignoring - where is your evidence that France pays people to enter UK illegally?

 

I think you asked for proof to which I replied So how do they pay for the vessels and the traffickers fees. Anyway forget it - you're starting to bore me.

 

LOL at you running away from your claim

 

Your post sounds very sour-grapes to me. Perhaps you consider mandatory euthanasia is the answer - it sounds that way anyway?

The bulk of retirees have paid the National Insurance contributions plus their PAYE payroll tax over the course of their working lives -- because the government of the day said they had to and told them it would be to pay for them in old age. Retirees also were/are aware that as they become older they will need medical assistance more and more. Also, the average British pensioner receives a far smaller pension - desultory, in fact, by world standards - than other Europeans (HERE).

Typically, a 70 year today old left school and began working at 15 years of age - maybe 18 years after college - and retired at 65 years of age, therefore they have an accrual of 50 years working life paying those contributions and taxes.

Now you come along and say they are draining society when in fact they've paid their share of it for Fifty years.

Those that chose, in their retirement to move overseas to Spain and elsewhere were perfectly legitimate in choosing that option. In same way that the decision to return home is perfectly legitimate.

 

And it isn't very far away SH . . .

"Gosport hospital deaths: The numbers behind the scandal"

Let nobody try to tell me that this isn't officially-sanctioned euthanasia, especially as the Plod can't be bothered to check it out? Bit like they couldn't be bothered to check out the child abuse in Rotherham etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44574899

 

I remember reading an article maybe 20 years ago where the idea of official euthanasia was floated publicly, Cerb. Then we had the "useless eaters" of Henry Kissinger and Prince Philip's comment about wanting to reincarnate as a deadly virus to reduce the population. Makes one sick doesn't it.

 

A friend posted the below article to my FB page this morning.

It is a real cracker in my opinion and is yet another reason why I have such contempt for our political class.

No matter what one's particular views are on Brexit, those who are behind the second referendum and kicking the can down the road strategy should be shown the inside of a prison cell, and their finances forensically examined and made public in full detail so the public knows exactly who is behind all this. I have my suspicions who that may be but no more than that, but the old maxim of who gains should inform us all.

Lastly, the article is not nearly as long as it might at first appear and is well worth reading to the very end.

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/the-...ggYUnGYAjpu_RRXNjMKLxGO5R9yH99Lv3TvF5miOTeST8

 

Not at all, but we need to recognise that if there is a significant influx of retirees at the same time that people of working age choose to return to their country of origin that this will have a "double whammy" effect on the NHS, demand will go up and the funds available to pay for it will go down.

Any contributions they made were spent long ago at the time they were made.

If we have a significant repatriation of retirees, we will have increased demand for the NHS and local services and that is accompanied by significant numbers of people of working age returning to the EU then revenue will fall.

Of course their decision to return home is perfectly legitimate, and they are also fully entitled to the benefits and healthcare that their historical contributions will entitle them to (though it will be interesting to see what happens for those people who have worked and contributed overseas).

It's also perfectly legitimate to point out that their returning home will place enormous strain on services which are already struggling and which will also be feeling the effects of Brexit logistically, economically and from a staffing standpoint. Nonnie was suggesting that the pensioners returning home en-masse would be some kind of economic bonus - I suggest the opposite.

 

But while they were away living elsewhere the state burden associated with them reduced, but so did their spending power. As I said they contributed to their health care over decades anyway.

You can't blame the person who adheres to a contract when the other party breaches it. Blame that breach on successive and bloody poor governments. The NI contributions were originally meant to be saved and accrued by the government and treated in a fiduciary manner to be used for those retiring, but government after government choose to spend them elsewhere.

What actually you're not squaring up to is that this is all subsequent to the plunder of the UK's national wealth by the banking elite in the 2008 financial crash. The Blair bizarrely government choose to bail the robber bankers out at the expense of the rest of us - and to do this they have chosen to squeeze public spending in almost every sector. Blair and Brown chose this because they favoured and were wedded to a neoliberal economic strategy (I would bang both the bastards up in a Victorian prison for it personally speaking).

Additionally the present Conservative government have continued to stick to their utterly vile ideological malpractice of privatising the Health Service so that the profitable parts are sold off (thus tax-payers money goes directly into private coffers while services diminish in quality). This then leaves the un-profitable parts of the NHS that quickly become unsustainable and a bigger burden.

So I would argue that point the finger of blame at those responsible - not the old codgers...

 

That money is long gone. If they come back to the UK, the NHS and other associated costs increase significantly.

This will be at a time when public finances will be under immense strain from Brexit - it's a double whammy.

I'm not blaming the person, I'm merely stating that an influx of retirees post-Brexit will not be a boon for the UK, especially if it's accompanied by a net outflow of EU workers. Costs, in terms of NHS costs and local services will rise significantly.

The only thing I would be blaming is the stupidity of a no-deal Brexit.

I'm not blaming pensioners who return to the UK whether or not it's the result of a no-deal Brexit.

Neither am I questioning their entitlement to access services and benefits

I'm merely pointing out that a hypothetical large influx of pensioners post-Brexit will put yet another strain on public finances which will already be reeling from the effects of a disorderly Brexit. Nonnie has opined that such an influx would be an economic boon - I suggest that it would not.

My preferred solution would be not to Brexit, but if Brexit is inevitable I would prefer an orderly Brexit in which UK pensioners living in the EU can still enjoy reciprocal healthcare arrangements, where their pensions will continue to increase and where the Euro/Pound exchange rate is stable so that pensioners who receive their pensions in sterling do not suddenly find themselves much worse off.

 

I see no reason why this would change unless it's a law designed only EU residents. However my undersstanding is that this law has been in place for quite a number of years. Private health care, overall, tends to be less expensive

Given the demographics, this appears to be an unsustainable program. The UK could look after these concerns closer to home rather than have Brussels make decisions for them. There are no strength in numbers in cases of pensioners, pensions and free health care.

The UK survived very well without the EU for centuries. If the EU balks at mutual trade deals, which would be very unlikely, then there are other areas of the world which would welcome British trade. Free of Brussels the UK would become the top place to invest in Western Europe. Brits must regain their stiff upper once again, and their cojones.

 

That was around the time the claims of dangerous overpopulation (the global warming of the day) would create intentional starvation and abortions becoming readily available and more wide spread. It demonstrates yet again how easily the public is led and manipulated.

 

Absolutely spot on! But apart from the traitorous betrayal that they're guilty of in the name of greed, what about if a second referendum is the same result, to leave? Does that mean Article 50 will have to be invoked again, and a replay of the whole charade, together with a repeat of the stupendous Whitehall expenditure we've seen hitherto? I think I'd rather top myself than suffer the farce of the last 2 effing years all over again. I've said it before, but sometimes I think I'm going to wake up from some bizarre dream. We've become a country of fools governed by bigger fools. And talking of 'bigger fools', I'd love to know what's in it for Hammond, whom I loathe with a psychotic passion?