British Starting to Debate Gun Rights Again.

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by 6Gunner, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    And yet the terrorists behind the Charlie Hebdo attack did utilize machine guns, despite the strict firearm-related restrictions of the nation of France.
     
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  2. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The above, however, does not actually mean that the fundamental right does not cover all firearms that are currently available on the open market.

    In the recent Caetano ruling by the united state supreme court, and the language used within, they went out of their way to explain that firearms could not be prohibited simply because they are dangerous, or because their configuration is unusual when compared to the firearms that were in existence at the time of the first congress. Instead the prohibition on dangerous and unusual weapons must apply exclusively to weapons that are simultaneously dangerous and unusual in their nature.

    So while the second amendment may not protect something exotic like a baseball bat with a circular saw blade inserted into the end, the same cannot be said for rifles such as the AR-15, which are currently owned in the millions.
     
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  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The ability to trace firearms is rendered a moot point when the serial number of a particular firearms is obliterated. Without a serial number to trace, nothing can be done. And on polymer-framed firearms, such as the Glock series of handguns, the serial number is on a small metal plate that is easily removed and discarded, rendering the firearm untraceable to anyone.

    And yet according to the border guards for the nation of Australia, they're continually having to seize more and more firearms being smuggled into the country. For all the ones that have been successfully seized, how many have not?
     
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  4. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    How many people did the Sand Bernadino shooters actually shoot?
     
  5. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    And the conviction rates for murder are in the high 90%. This would be even higher as murder suicides are not counted due to dead men not being able to stand trial.
    Nice try though.....
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    According to the FBI, a mass shooting is any incident in which a firearm is used, and four or more people are killed in a short period of time. It would take very little ammunition to carry out a successful mass shooting under such a standard.
     
  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    What of the uniformed police officer who was on duty at the scene?

    Demonstrate the above. Demonstrate that firearms are the reason police response times are growing longer and longer in the united states.
     
  8. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    What about him? He is still alive despite being armed only with a truncheon and going to the defence of members of the public. The man is a hero.
    Demonstrate that they aren't. The facts of these two cases seem to show that they are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  9. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    It's not firearms, it's the very real threat of litigation and is area dependent. A cop is not going to rush out to an active hood shooting where he may actually plug a thug rat unless he has too. If he does, it's virtually guaranteed he will be sued and possibly prosecuted.
     
  10. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    In the Umpqua shooting, the shooter forced the victims to lay on the floor and shot them as they were helpless on the floor at point blank range. A box of 20 rounds and two ten round magazines could be easily used to murder 20 people in such a manner.

    Ammunition restrictions would do nothing. The Aurora shooter's 6000 round ammo purchase weighed about 200 lbs. He wasn't carrying that much ammo anywhere.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Armed only with a truncheon? Pray tell where exactly are you getting your information from? The police officer in question had a firearm, and returned fire against Omar Mateen.

    It is your claim, therefore it is your obligation to present evidence to support it, rather than demanding that others do your work for you. If you believe that firearms in society are the true reason for police response times increasing, then demonstrate the evidence that supports and confirms your belief.

    Indeed they do not. You have no evidence to back up your claim, otherwise you would have presented it.
     
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  12. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    However it does extend to common firearms at the very least.
     
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  13. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    And in Russia terrorists managed to kill over 300 students even though Russia has strict gun control. In fact the EU has more mass shooting deaths than the US.
     
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  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  15. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are you supporting gun control when the obvious primary driver of crime is demographics: Non-Whites and non-Christians doing so much violence and so much terror?
     
  16. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    You will have to be more specific about which policeman you are talking about.
    This is the uniformed policeman who took on the London Bridge terrorists,
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/05/hero-rookie-officer-took-terrorists-baton-stabbed-face/
    Armed police turned up within minutes and shot dead the three terrorists.
    Also no policeman ''returned fire'' as the terrorists, thankfully, were not armed with firearms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  17. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    That's nothing that two 9mm HP's in the center of mass wouldn't have solved much easier.
     
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  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Would it not be better to have fewer guns in the hands of the gangs?
     
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  19. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    As you mentioned the Pulse nightclub shooting, it was assumed you were referring to the police officer who was at the scene of that incident, and engaged Omar Mateen in a firefight.
     
  20. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Because whites in the US still have a much higher murder rate than whites in the rest of the developed world. And how do you know non-Christians have higher murder rates? I don't see why the British need to change their gun laws when their murder rate is no different than other European countries. Why change a good thing?
     
  21. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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  22. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    But isn't that the definition of a murder? If they aren't guilty at best its just manslaughter.
     
  23. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The British people have been emasculated by their rulers and Parliament and their statutes for centuries by now.

    They are incapable of learning how to shoot and defend themselves.

    So nothing will ever change there, and they will always be an easy target for terrorist criminals.
     
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  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Pray tell what proposal do you intend to put forth, that would do just that? Most if not all of the firearms these gang members currently hold were acquired through illegal means, be it straw purchases, theft, black market deals, or directly from the police themselves. In the state of California, for example, countless firearms issued to police officers have been lost by individual officers exercising recklessness that would get a private individual arrested, but they are not held accountable for their actions. There are no records to even indicate how many firearms have been lost through such carelessness.

    http://www.ocregister.com/2016/09/2...ere-their-guns-are-and-the-law-says-thats-ok/

    According to the ATF, there are even police officers who are firearm traffickers themselves.

    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/sd-me-atf-follow-20170504-story.html

    Again, pray tell what sort of proposal can be put forth for how to go about removing firearms from circulation amongst criminals, without placing new restrictions on legal firearm owners, and treating them as potential suppliers to criminals, simply because they have firearms in their possession?

    There are an estimated three hundred to five hundred million firearms in private circulation in the united states right now. Background check data released by the FBI indicates that at least forty one thousand more firearms are being bought and added to that amount on a daily basis. Reducing the number of firearms in private circulation is not a viable option, because attempting to remove even one percent of the amount would take a monumental effort, and would ultimately do no good whatsoever.
     
  25. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    @Bowerbird guns themselves do need to be controlled, but the people who may own guns must be broadened to include all law abiding citizens and residents who have a clean record.

    Here in the USA guns themselves are quite regulated already. It is an extremely bureaucratic and legalistic procedure to buy a gun.

    But each of the 50 states and DC have their own rules about who may own them. This varies from Communistic like in DC, NYC, NYS, Chicago, and Hawaii to complete freedom like in Arizona, Vermont, etc.

    In my state, you need to pass a criminal background check and wait a few days, be over 21 with a state I/D card of some kind. To carry openly in public is ok as long as the firearm is not chambered. It can be loaded but not chambered.

    For a concealed firearms permit, you need to take a 4 hour class, no test, have a clean criminal record with no offenses of any kind, and wait 30 days while the State processes the license.

    It varies everywhere on this planet where we live.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017

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