Can I convince PF's resident truthers that American 77 hit the Pentagon?

Mike Williams does a good write up of the whole event.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

 

What is that link supposed to do?

 

did it not work? Try this.

 

Lol. No, the link works just fine. I'm asking what is it supposed to prove, or better yet, disprove.

 

It's not supposed to prove or disprove anything, it merely better informs the reader of the situation and allows you to make your own mind up.

 

Okay. So I'm assuming that's the "source" Plague was referring to when he said that was used to debunk the "lies about the dancing Israelis". I don't see how it debunks it, not at all, not when the New York Times, ABC, Fox News, and an eye witness affirm the allegations.

I mean, you guys, and that "source" can try and spin the tires all day if you desire, but that's all you'll be doing.

 

I'm not sure what source he was referring to. In my opinion it looks like something which post-911 paranoia blew out of proportion. it appears to be 3 guys being idiots and taking pictures of themselves with the collapsed trade center's in the background. I cannot see how this could possibly link to a conspiracy.

 

Of course you can't.

 

Care to explain how you think it may?

 

Did the media do any follow-ups stating that the suspected Israeli men weren't doing the things they were claimed to be doing?

 

Basically, it boils down to this: Credible sources like the New York Times, ABC and Fox News reported on the suspicious Israeli men that were detained by the police after being reported on by an American woman for acting weird during 9/11. What else do you need to know?

 

I need to know how this might tie into any coherent conspiracy theory, if that is what you are suggesting.

 

Are you disputing that they were celebrating? Are you disputing that they possessed foreknowledge?

 

I believe foreknowledge is hard to prove. The witnesses own story states she didn't see them there until some time after the attacks had begun. The story also mentions they may have just been taking pictures, not filming. So no, I do not believe foreknowledge. As for celebrating, they may very well have been, for who knows what reason. Maybe they personally did not like the US? But I don't believe 'celebrating' is the right word to use here.

"I could see they were happy". Sounds a long way from dancing and high fives.

So in short;

1. I find it difficult to believe based on the eye witness, that they were "dancing" and "celebrating", or that they had foreknowledge.

2. I fail to see how it would tie into a conspiracy, as the details of the background of the hijackers, and the planners, are well known, and no links exist between them and Israel as far as I am aware. In fact, IIRC, wasn't Israel one of the nations which supplied warnings to the US of an impending attack?

 

For all we know, they had just gotten some video footage that they thought was going to make them a (*)(*)(*)(*) load of money.

 

Exactly what CJ and Lefty have said, I was more saying that there was no "van full of bombs" than I was about the dancing Israelis, as I believe that is the dumbest myth out of any of them. Believe it or not there are people in America that hate America. Holston continuously states that there was a van full of explosives, on it's way to NY with a mural of planes flying into the WTC. I have proven this to be factually false as there is absolutely 0 evidence to back that claim up.

As for the Israelis, if they had foreknowledge, why weren't they at the pentagon doing the same thing? No one reported any such activities there. The dancers showed up WAY after the planes had hit. If they had such foreknowledge, why weren't they there WHEN the attacks happened? Better photo ops, better chance to show their "bosses" that they were on the ball. Lastly, if the Israelis, as Holston claims, were in on it, and the Jews were behind everything, why wouldn't they cover it up? Pretend it never happened? Pop a cap in Maria's ass (who cares they just murdered 3K?) and then no one is the wiser. Why does every truther conspiracy have to be the dumbest theory ever? It just doesn't make sense how this would tie into the plot. Use occam's razor, just because you guys WANT it to be some drawn out, ridiculous plot, doesn't mean it always is.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeDw7M_GOug

In the video you can hear the police discussing the van with the mural painted on it. One asks for back up and mentions getting the bomb squad. It also says that two men ran from it and the van exploded.

Plaque will tell you that these conversations never took place and if they did they were fabricated by a bunch of "truthers" who were pulling off an elaborate plot to sell the American public on the idea that Mossad agents were arrested so that they could later present this hoax as evidence.

That is the only way you can explain it if the conversation is not an actual radio transmission of police.

If that was true then, the news reports , including the one featured of Dan Rather which said that the FBI had reported arresting some men in a van loaded with tons of explosives would also had to have been false.

In order for all of this evidence to be false, it would all have to have been conjured up by the same group of people who invented the stories in in an effort to falsely incriminate the Mossad. Otherwise all the stories just sprang up coincidentally on their own.

But how could this happen if the attacks were actually carried out by 19 Arabs with box cutters?

Since the reports about the vans containing bombs driven by Mossad agents came in on the same day, the hoaxers would have had to have had the story already prepared and some means to falsify a report coming from the FBI to the news media.

Otherwise the fellow in the film is either not Dan Rather or a film was doctored to make his lips appear to be in sync with the report and someone whose voice signature that matches Rather's perfectly would had to have been employed in the process.


I doubt if any of this is true (Occcam's razor) because it is extremely unlikely that a group of people large enough to perpetrate the hoax could have been assembled fast enough. It would mean that the plan was hatched and executed hardly before the news had time to blame it all on Osama Bin Laden. And that was almost instantly.

The only other way that the hoaxers could reasonably be prepared for the event was if they were in league with the Arabs who carried out the attack.

This would require that 19 Arabs (with box cutters), under the orders of Bin Laden, enlisted the support of a bunch of Americans who were known to be conspiracy nuts already, and who also wanted to see the towers blown up and three thousand people die in the process, so they could blame the entire thing on the Mossad.

This implies that the hoaxer conspiracy nut planners were also "anti-semitic". This could mean only one thing. That everyone who was in the original "truther" movement was comprised of Neo Nazis who were in league with Arabs to blow up the WTCs as revenge for losing WWii and to make everyone mad at the Jews so that they would construct more concentration camps in the US to gas them again.

Unfortunately, the Arabs who did the attacks were so dumb that they never anticipated that the US would use the attacks as an excuse to attack Israel's enemies and to get hold of the oil producing region. Who would ever imagine those consequences? Not anybody in Bin Laden's administration anyway.


These 19 Arabs were smart enough to slip past the combined intelligence agencies of the US and Israel. They also knew that the US was going to be conducting simulated hijackings on the day they planned for, and that this would cause enough confusion between the FAA and NORAD to enable them to slip by the normal fighter procedures.

One can only speculate how the Arabs coordinated the flights so that they all passed through radar gaps and still managed to time them so that they all hit their targets before NORAD and the FAA could figure out what was going on. What's even more amazing is that they did all of this without any in flight communication with one another using only their watches for timing. They managed this timing despite at least one unscheduled flight delay!

This was likely due to some prior "Remote Vision" training that they received from the CIA without the CIA realizing that they were Arabs or suspecting that they might want to learn this in addition to flying jets so they could fly a bunch of planes into buildings. No one could have imagined this of course, EXCEPT the Arabs who are noted for their fertile imaginations as well as their incomparable cunning in slipping past Israeli operated security at airports.

Despite these incredible abilities, the Arabs were still dumb enough to imagine that the US would take such an attack lying down. They probably figured that since they would already be in heaven with their wine, women and song, that the consequences to the Arab world would no longer matter to them. Never mind what Allah thought about it. He would understand.

Still one must wonder why they would be so eager to get to the other side when they already had all the pink haired strippers and drugs they could use right here on terra firma courtesy of Jack Abramoff and some rich uncle in Pakistan.
http://fedupusa.wordpress.com/911-a-h/

This combination of Islamic fundamentalism, complete debauchery, extreme intelligence, and sublime stupidity which characterized the 19 Arabs is indeed paradoxical as is the sudden appearance of hoaxes designed to implicate Israeli intelligence from so many apparently disparate sources at once.

But one can simply chalk all that up to coincidence.

Some of you may protest and say "Why that's preposterous. Such a collaboration among so many unrelated individuals is virtually impossible considering the odds that it could all be due to coincidence and timed so precisely to occur in conjunction!"; to which one can only reply, "Of course, but although the odds may be a million to one, (conservative estimate), it is still the most plausible explanation because someone usually does win a lottery even though the odds against it are greater than that." It should all make perfect sense to you now.

I know. You may still be thinking, but for so many people to imagine so many things, like the four people who saw the Mossad agents "high fiveing and dancing", and to coordinate this report with other false reports about Mossad agents in vans with explosives, not to mention all the other people who came forth with reports and doubts,
for all of these people to be on the same page,

that would require them to all be part of a huge conspiracy to murder thousands of people just to frame the Mossad............wouldn't it?

PRECISELY! That's just what it was!!

ie part of a vast conspiracy among thousands of closet Neo-Nazis who are determined to gas the Jews because they are jealous of their freedoms (and bank accounts). And they wanted to do this so bad that they were all willing to kill thousands initially, hundreds of thousands later, and bankrupt the whole country if necessary.

It's no wonder that the ADL is so worried and also why they are so eager to get as many of their own on the Supreme Court and in government as possible. They must defend themselves from all the rabid anti-semitism that makes a career in the motion picture industry or becoming a doctor or lawyer so hazardous to their health.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/17/b...lawed-information-occasionally-creeps-in.html

 

Hey cjnewson88

You said this.

I responded with this.

You then responded with this.

You're tap dancing around my question because you know there's no smear. If you say there's a smear, show us where it is.

You're playing dumb. Anyone who clicks on the link can see what I'm asking. I'll copy and paste the whole post so you won't have to click on it.

Tell us whether you agree with what leftysergeant said about smoke looking like the object at the right of this picture...
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

...when it leaves the engine and then changing its appearance to the appearance of the smoke in this picture.

http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm
(top picture)

 

............after the word came down from on high just like it did about Bin Laden, and just like it did during the Jones interview which forbid showing tower 7 coming down.

Damage control. Public Relations.
Deny. Deny. Deny.

That doesn't explain who conjured up the story in the first place and how it happened that so many such "tales" arose so quickly.



http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/zionist.html

 

Nice, so now the NY Times and the NYPD are complicit, according to you. Hilarious.

 

The 'object' in your low quality image is a smear compared to the plane in my higher quality one. You seem to have a problem with understanding basic principles.

Already read it. I don't see what is wrong here, apart from you stupidly calling smoke 'metallic'. He is right, the smoke is being emitted by the damage engine (after it likely ingested debris from one of the poles it knocked down) and is being swirled behind the aircraft due to wake turbulence and vortices. Another simple concept, you don't understand.

That's exactly what happens. Perhaps you do need to go to an airshow, or maybe look at some contrails in the sky.

Scotty, why are you ignoring the crucial part of my post? Everything you say is null and void until you can show me this;

Come now, show me your drone shadow or your argument is finished.

 

No, dummy. The employees just do what their bosses tell them. Otherwise they would be out of a job.

 

You cannot tell hundreds of people to remain silent about the murder of hundreds of their brothers and expect to get away with it, especially when the people you are trying to intimidate are more courageous than eighty percent of the population. Why does this go over your head. Keeping silent about a murder leaves you open to the possibility that you will be next. Thus, you are saying that FDNY are a bunch of stupid cowards.

As a veteran fire fighter, I find this deeply offensive.

 

I've actually proven that to be true on here before.

Oh, I am not thinking anything particularly devious about the Israelis, as in, them being actually involved in the plot. Now, do I think they had foreknowledge? Yeah. Obviously the United States had been infiltrated by al-Qaeda operatives, so do some thinking here on your own. How hard would it be for the Mossad to send assets over here to do intelligence work? If you recall, there were many Israelis detained after 9/11. There have been several instances over the years, recently and around 9/11 when Israel was suspected of spying on us. Things are talked about in the press, but the issue is never pressed. There exists, always, that fine line of 'plausible deniability'. But really, what are you going to gauge your beliefs on? The latest and greatest that is parroted to you, or the things that fall into the gray that just make sense even if they're taboo to talk about.