Can you be a "minimalist Christian"?

I've often been told your works will not gain you salvation rather it's your faith. I've also often heard the quote "It's not a religion, it's a relationship with God". Let's put these two claims to the test.

Let's say somebody with all sincerity makes a decision one day to be "saved" and accepts Jesus' sacrifice on the cost as an atonement for his sins. He just wakes up one morning and says to himself "Yup, that's true and I accept it". He vows to be the best human being he can possibly be.

But he never attends church, not even on his wedding day (instead it's a civil marriage) and never attends any bread and wine ceremony. He never gets baptized. He never preaches the gospel to anyone not even to his own children (a personal spiritual experience is something that people will have to find on their own). He accepts no ecclesiastical authority from any pastor or priest and relies on himself to read the Bible. He has no outward physical expressions of his faith except maybe to dress modestly.

So what does he do? As already said he tries to live a moral life the best way he knows how and reads the Bible for guidance. He sets aside a meditation room in his house just for Bible reading and prayer. He gives to charity but his donations have no Christian fingerprints on them (food and financial donations that don't come with a Bible sermon or a cross on the wrapping aka "courtesy of a Christian") meaning that the anonymous donation could come from anyone perhaps even a Muslim.

I have not lived such a life prior as I was baptized as an infant and had a church wedding. Also not going to church today is a moot point as the pandemic makes that impossible anyway. But as a spiritual free thinker, this kind of lifestyle I laid out is still possible moving forward. I never read the church tracts slipped under my door for example (the church in my area uses this as a substitute for in person church services) or watch any online sermons.

So, can you honestly call yourself a Christian with the lifestyle I described above?

 

Sure and you pretty much described me.

None of those things are necessary to get into Heaven and they don't appeal to everyone.

God doesn't need you to do this or that for Him but when you do accept Christ He then uses you in ways you usually have no idea about. You still your best to understand and follow the Bible but that is literally impossible.

And remember, you can accept Christ in your last moment in life and He will take you so what works you do or don't do really aren't going to affect much.

For instance, my own relationship with God may be completely different than another person's because I know that God pushes me to do certain things by opening the doors I need to go through and closing the ones I don't.

Sometimes I get this feeling that I know God is pushing me to do something yet I get stubborn and do it my own way and it fails spectacularly every time. Now when I get that feeling I don't even question it, I just do it.

It's pretty amazing actually.

I have given this life to God so it's his to do with whatever He wants.

 

No. That's sort-a like being a little bit pregnant. Either you are or you're not. You can be an Atheist and live a life that would be parallel with the Christian's Golden Rule. You don't have to be a Christian to be a decent human being.

 

Of course, you can.

Being a Christian is about following the teachings of Jesus, not performing rituals.

 

Correct. One has been saved by (God's) grace alone, through (one's) faith alone.

It is both a religion AND a relationship with God.

I would say yes... But I would also say that it seems like this is an example of "faith without works", and such faith is "dead" according to the Book of James. In other words, one's faith has not manifested itself in outward works. I would suggest to that person to do some soul searching to figure out why that is...

 

I will note, though, that we all have been given different abilities/interests/etc. and are all called to do different things. We all have different strengths and weaknesses which makes our journey through life a completely unique experience from anyone else's.

 

The other side of the coin has to do with what (if anything) might cause God to reject you.

Near the end of Matthew 25 includes Jesus stating one kind of failure that could cause his followers (Christians) to be rejected by God.

I don't see any argument in Christianity that suggests that once an individual does all that is required for conversion that there is nothing that could result in rejection by God.

The problems with the "rich man" getting into heaven didn't have to do with the earnestness of the conversion of that individual. That rich man's entry to heaven was predicated on whether he walked the walk - works!

I think it is crystal clear that in Christianity works is NOT sufficient.

However, an ABSENCE of works can clearly be sufficient for rejection by God.

I'd also say that regardless of how well one might time their plea to God for his forgiveness, the very act of timing it is a clear sign of lack of honesty. If there were a god, that god wouldn't be so easily fooled.

 

The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of Christ which is basically anyone who doesn't follow Him.

 

That isn't what Jesus told his disciples in Matthew 25.

That's not what Jesus told the rich man.

Your version of Christianity may have a way around what Jesus said in these cases.

But, I'm not so sure that even makes sense to contemplate. What does a conversison to Christianity even mean if it contains none of the fundamental concepts of works that attest to that conversion?

How totally meaningless can ones Christianity be, yet still have God invite you to heaven?

"Go ye into all the world and preach..." - Nope. Not doing that.

Search out those in prisons, poor houses, hospitals to find their needs so you may supply them - Nope. Not doing that.

Sell your faulous wealth and give it to the poor. Nope, DAMN sure not to do that.

Serve those you see as sinner, such as those you see as committing sexual transgressions. Nope. We're passing LAWS so I don't have to do this one.

I just don't see religion as an a la carte menu like you seem to.

When Jesus directed his followers to do these things, I don't believe you can come along and say Jesus surely didn't mean that. The Bible says he meant it. In Matthew 25, he says that CHRISTIANS won't be welcome if they don't.

 

Christianity says ALL sins may be forgiven - even that "unforgivable sin" can be forgiven.

But, the issue with forgiveness is that you do have to ask. You don't get forgiven when you never ask for forgiveness. For example, you don't become a Christian without asking forgiveness.

Christians know what Jesus demanded of the rich man. They know what Jesus demanded in Matthew 25:30 on.

I don't see a justification for thinking you can just blow off what Jesus called on Christians to do when he made those works critical to the question of whether one will be rejected by God.

Also, forgiveness isn't some sort of permit for continuing bad behavior.

You can't go to bed each night and apologize for not doing the rich man thing and not doing the "preach the gospel" thing and not doing the find people in jail to help then thing and not doing the help forigners thing, and refusing to give aid even when givin aid is your JOB, etc. And, then wake up and do each of those things again.

How is that any better than what Catholics used to do in dispensing indulgences for future bad behavior?

 

Nothing is required to be a Christian other than believing that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. The rest of it is busywork.

Christians, believe that Jesus is the Christ, whose coming as the Messiah was prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, called the Old Testament in Christianity, and chronicled in the New Testament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#​

 

That's what it takes to BECOME a Christian. I don't believe that's the limit of what is required to BE a Christian.

Jesus does lay down some requirements as I've mentioned in this and other threads.

 

That is not exactly true, based on the biblical fairy tale.

 

It specifically says that in the Bible, it's not my interpretation so go argue with it.

 

I probably couldn't honestly call myself a Christian with the described lifestyle, but someone else probably could.

Seems to me the 'relationship' is between each individual and God.

In this lifestyle you describe, is the Christian resisting a calling from God to do those things? God's design has different purposes for each of us.

 

Good point. Some Christians feel the urge which they would call a calling from God to serve and do certain things.

I forgot to add to the lifestyle above: He does not observe holidays except insofar as it's fun not to work on Saturdays and sets up a Christmas tree but that's not really a Christian tradition so much as a western tradition. He also does not openly discuss his faith unless asked.

 

Jesus was ministering to a rich man who's obstacle between him and a relationship with God was his worldly things. Even people who are poor can put worldly things ahead of God. I think you can certainly say rich people, those who get used to a life where their needs are fulfilled by the worldly things they own, have less opportunity to be humble before God. Sometimes it's the hard knocks that give an attitude adjustment to who is actually in power, but I dont get your interpretation that Jesus was saying being rich was a sin.

Many people with strong faith in Jesus and people throughout the Old testament as well were blessed with riches. The tomb Jesus was buried in came from a rich man. The idea is that you are fully aware of where those riches come from, that they can be taken away as easy as given, and that you put God first.

 

According to Christianity, God has not rejected anyone. When Jesus (God incarnate) died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, he did that for every man woman and child; even you! However, people can and do choose to reject him and his grace. Like any relationship, the feelings must be mutual in order for it to grow in closeness and trust. If people wish to be separate from God, then God leaves them to their own devices.

According to Christianity, an individual is saved by (God's) grace alone through (one's) faith alone. There is no work or works that any individual can perform to save themselves. Works are still very important, however, as they are a manifestation of one's faith in God.

What specific scripture are you referring to with regard to the "rich man"?

Correct.

It is not God who is doing the rejecting. It is one's own self choosing to reject God in exchange for the ways of this world. It is one putting their faith in earthly power, wealth, fame, works, pleasure, etc. instead of putting their faith in a heavenly God. Works are a manifestation of one's faith. Without works, faith is dead.

Who says that he is being fooled? If one comes to true faith at the very last second, then one has still ultimately come to true faith. The parable about the workers in the vineyard is applicable here.

 

As an atheist I live a "moral lifestyle" not all that different apart from not wasting my time with the bible, prayer rituals and the rest of the theist claptrap.

I see no need to go through some mumbo-jumbo "acceptance ritual" either since I probably have more in common with the imaginary deity of the Christian dogma than those who profess to have a "relationship" with him.

Neither I nor their imaginary deity believe in the existence of any "higher power" which makes their imaginary deity an atheist just like myself.

So to answer the OP's question one can be just as "minimalist" as suits oneself.

Your imaginary deity isn't doing any of the "good works" that it apparently "requires" of it's believers since it hasn't lifted a finger to help any of it's followers suffering from the ill effects of the current pandemic. If anything it is doing the exact opposite given that attending church services has become a super spreader risk behavior.

 

It's not about any specific works. We all have different strengths and weaknesses, and have all been blessed differently and have been called to accomplish different things during this life.

I have not been called to be a CEO of a major company, for example, but I HAVE been called to be an Accounts Receivable Accountant for a local property management company. God knows that I am a very patient person who can put up with quite a bit, so he has placed me in the middle of a politically leftist hellhole with leftists as coworkers.

If I chose to follow my own desires, I would immediately move to the most politically conservative enclave feasible for me to move to. I've come close to doing so on more than one occasion, but whenever I mull over where God is calling me to serve him, that calling has remained smack dab in the middle of the leftist hellhole that I am currently serving in. Thankfully, I have been blessed with a house in the country (still in a leftist hellhole county, but away from the leftist hellhole city that I work in).

I am not the best public nor "on the spot" speaker, but I HAVE been blessed with good communication skills via text/typing, so I have been putting those skills to good use on forums such as this one to spread knowledge and truth to others in this sort of manner instead.

 

Paradox. If a sin is "unforgivable", then it cannot be forgiven, by definition. You cannot rationally argue both sides of a paradox and argue that such a sin can be forgiven yet at the same time call it "unforgivable".

Mostly correct, but I think that you're still too focused on specific good works rather than good works in general (treating others as we'd wish to be treated).

 

No, it isn't.

 

BINGO! Nailed it.

 

I realize that many people (including myself, formerly) use "atheist" to mean "no God/s" (God does not exist), but the word atheist actually technically means "without God/s". In other words, an atheist is one who does not have any theism (or what many people, including myself formerly, would call an "agnostic"). Such a person does not subscribe to either belief.

What many people call an "atheist", or what I now refer to as a Church of No God member, is someone who believes that God/s do/es not exist. The Church of No God is a theistic belief just like Christianity is a theistic belief.

So, to summarize, as you further describe your beliefs, you are not an atheist in the sense of "without God/s" (or what many would call "agnosticism"), but rather, you are a Church of No God member. You positively believe that god/s do not exist.

Church of No God members can indeed behave morally.

Okay. That choice is yours and yours alone to make. Just keep in mind that you will not be free from any potential consequences of your choice.

You cannot speak for God (or what you refer to as "imaginary deity"). You can only speak for yourself.

There is no such thing as a "super spreader". That is just a made up word meant to scare people. There is no "pandemic" occurring either... The manipulative media is simply lying to people about covid, about masks being able to stop viruses, about hospitals "overflowing", and the like... Lying and manipulating are the ways of Satan, not the ways of Christ.

 

Two basketball team players can be inches apart face to face with no mask breathing as hard into each other's faces as possible for over an hour - no danger of spreading covid-19. A thousand people in a WalMart store - covid-19 can't be spread there. 10,000 protesters? No chance of infecting anyone. 20 people in a church? 10,000 people are going to die because of this. Churches must be outlawed because religious people are "super spreaders" - with Christians and others who go to church being declared purely evil amoral murderers. They can't allow that. They should be shopping instead! Send the plutocrats their money, not giving it to a church.

Covid-19 - the lies of it - has been used to destroy the middle merchant class on behalf of the wealthiest people on earth's profit. Covid-19 has been used to try to destroy Christianity - which is the enemy of the super rich internationalists secular religion of greed and consumerism. Unlike the plutocrats, Christianity does not claim happiness can only be obtained by having the newest Apple Iphone and next big screen TV. NOTHING is more evil to the plutocrats than not believing happiness only comes from material consumerism greed.

Plus Jeff Bezos, WalMart, the other Western and Chinese plutocrats with their Chinese child slave labor sweatshop business partnerships should get every dollar everyone has - no exceptions - even every dollar that would have gone into the collection plate.

Covid-19 has been used to destroy every competitor of the richest international corporations and people in the history of earth - profit and power. That is the singular reason for the endless 24/7 covid-19 bioterrorism on all TV stations, newspapers and on social media - all owned and controlled by those same richest corporations and people on earth.

Is hearing the words "covid" and corona 250,000 times already enough? Never. Every day, Every night. Every hour. Every week, month and year. Using the Stockholm Syndrome coming to be in the side of the bioterrorists for their profit and power and your expense, suffering and lose of all civil and individual rights - already the most powerful and richest people to ever exist.

It's not going to end until every middle class business and every church is permanently shut down being too broke to ever re-open. They've ONLY permanently destroyed 30%. Must be 100%. They already have announced a new version of covid-19 that is immune to the vaccine exists - and OMG it is far, far more deadly and much easier spread the the current covid-19. Don't think you'll ever get your rights back. NOTHING matters but more power and money for the already richest and most powerful people in the world.

You must remain a faceless person behind masks the rest of your life - a visual submission to accepting that YOU don't exist as an individual - just faceless livestock in the herds of the plutocrats and kleptocrats. From now on - forever. Why would they ever let YOU take your masks off? There is no money in that for them, is there?

Don't think about disagreeing either - unless you want to be ridiculed, attacked, fired, censored and banned from having any voice. Peasants and serfs must do and not do whatever their masters and lords totalitarian order on authoritarian edicts without questioning it.