Hello. In this thread I would like to talk about Christians (or at least, the ones I have personal experience with). Note I am not talking about Christianity as a religion. I am not a Christian and as such I am not all that familiar with it. It seems to me that most Christians are fundamentally good people. They want to be good and do good. Where I live, there are several soup kitchens staffed and operated by Christian groups. Not Muslims, not Jews. Well, one by Buddhists but that's it. A few years ago I was in a different city, I had no job, very little money, and I had trouble securing housing. Luckily for me there were many Christian-run charities that fed, and clothed me. They also gave people free haircuts and toiletries. When I was on another forum, there were some posters who were extremely aggressive towards Christians. They would do their best to "prove" to Christian posters that there was no God. I just thought this was both rude and very cruel. I don't know if God truly exists or not. But let's say if they managed to convince Christians that there is no God, so what? It would only make them (Christians) miserable. And it is because of this that I consider these types of hostility, and outright aggression to be very mean and nasty. (here it's much better though). Maybe many decades ago, some Christian missionaries could be considered aggressive and that their proselytizing ways could be argued as trying to shove their religion down people's throats. However, such is no longer true in our contemporary world. Nowadays, Christians just wait by the sides of roads giving out little pamphlets to passers-by. Meekly and unobtrusively. Anyways, my point is that most Christians are fundamentally good people. There are some bad apples however most are moral, upright people. You might not agree with their faith and/or beliefs, however one thing you can't deny is that they care about people and they want to help people.
Nice thread. What folks need to understand is that Christians are just as broken as everyone else. The Good News brought to the world through the person of Jesus? That we all, Jew and Gentile alike, have been given access to the Kingdom of God and, through Jesus' death on the cross and his resurrection, have had our relationship with God restored and been provided access to the promise of everlasting life. During his three year ministry, Christ gave us the amazing sermon on the mount and modelled what it means to live free, whole, and in an intimate relationship with God. Christians are called to live as Christ lived. Christ lived well and in service to all. I once read a statement written by Mother Teresa that in everyone she met, she saw the person of Christ. I have to admit I'm still trying to figure out how one gets to there, but if everyone was there, can you imagine what this world would be like? Yes, true Christians are good people. And what is a "good" person? Well, we have been told what it means to be a blessed person... Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you. The golden rule is golden for a reason, yes?
As a Christian I can tell you that you simply get used to the hate from the left. You expect it. Without our laws I have no doubt they would string us up but that's OK, we know where we are going. They talk about our beliefs in unicorns they talk about how little kids get sick....they try to convince us that god isn't real with a passion few people have. But they've never known Christ. If they did they would understand.
And you honestly can't see how what you wrote above can be considered hypocritical? Or are you just providing an example for discussion?
I have better things to do than listen to some random guy telling me my why my belief is fake. Go on your way, don't like what I believe than fine, I never asked you. But they have to for some reason convince me that its wrong.
So the only people you ever have had problems with, ALL of them, have only been people whose political ideas, in your opinion, lean left? Is that what you are saying? So EVERY single person whose exhibits an opinion counter to yours secretly would love to string you up? And do you not realize that those last three lines could be said by anyone else also in a cult? I've heard similar lines expressed by Christian cultists, Moonies, Scientologists, you name it....that's the hallmark signature of a cult, an "us against them" mentality.
They don't express a counter opinion, that would be fine and I would listen to them. They have a need to convince me I am wrong. And we are coming up on December so watch for their yearly war on Christmas and you will see my point.
Is it an integral part of your faith to feel persecuted? Does it make you feel closer to God to feel that way?
I have met many true Christians who are very good people, including my own parents. -They give to charity -They help the poor -They are welcoming to people not like them, especially minorities and foreigners -They don't feel the need to vilify welfare recipients -They are against war -They are against violence of any form -They don't wear their Christianity on their sleeve Unfortunately, few of these attributes can be found in today's self-proclaimed Christians of the religious right. Many of them pray not to be good people but rather because they are afraid of going to hell after they die.
How are the attributes from the OP not common among the average believers of pretty much every religion? They aren't unique to Christians.
most people are generally decent. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, etc. but bigots always let a few bad apples ruin the whole tree, in their eyes
I was born in a religious home. After a strong introduction to Christianity I became an atheist. I've had 83 years of life's experiences and I've discovered that whether or not a person is a Christian has nothing to do with their character. Some of my agnostic/atheist friends live a more Christian style life than some of my religious friends do. The reverse can also be said.
What utter BS. The Neo Nazis and the KKK's are all Christians too aren't they? The right wings are full of fake "Christians."
Christ wasn't even born on Christmas Day. But of course you would know that if you are a true Christian. Furthermore, Christmas is pagan holiday and now is becoming more and more a commercial holiday.
Frickin atheist, they always have a superiority complex, they go on and on about how they don't believe in a god but talk non stop 24/7 about it. Two people I never ever trust in life vegetarians and atheist.
Mercy, love, and tolerance are ESSENTIAL characteristics of a TRUE Christian. Luke 18: 9-14 9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Contempt is a VICE which is certainly not characteristic of a Christian. Matthew 7: 1-2 1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Actually, the KKK is basically Christian, but many of the neo-Nazis aren't. Many of them reject worshipping a Jew.
Just like with Muslims, it is fallacy to generalize all Christians into the same category. Mao did some good things but this did not make him a good guy (as to most totalitarian dictators). Followers of Islam do some good things but that does not make Islam a good religion. The same is true of Christianity. There are some within Christianity who are the antithesis of your discription. They are not "fundamentally good" and the do not follow the principles taught by Jesus. This group wants to force their particular made up version of the Bible on others through physical violence (Law). This is the same ideology as the Islamist's (note that not all Muslims are Islamist = people who hate individual rights and freedoms and want strict sharia theocracy) Terms like "fundamentally good" require some kind of clarification. My definition is those who follow the Golden Rule "do unto others as you would have done to you/treat others as you would be treated" , those who have respect for the individual rights and freedoms of others and do not want to force their personal beliefs on others though physical violence (Law). Some do not understand what individual rights and freedoms are and think it means doing what ever one wants so forgive the kindergarten definition - (individual rights and freedoms end where the nose of another begins). The other thing that many have question is that law is physical violence. (Yes people voting yes in a referendum to ban alcohol is forcing your personal beliefs on others through physical violence) ... BY DEFINITION ... making something law gives some authority the power to punish violators of that law. There is a difference between 1) having a belief and 2) forcing that belief on others through physical violence (law). This is the line. Either someone get's this principle or they do not . abides by this principle "the Golden rule" or they do not. If you do not want someone else forcing their personal beliefs on you through physical violence, then do not do the same to others. The Religious Right in general hates this rule. They give Christianity and Christians a bad name unfortunately. It is what it is.
