And the fingers keep pointing...."I didn't do it they cry...no options....not my fault." PHILADELPHIA (AP) They say they were just doing what the boss trained them to do. But eight former employees of a run-down West Philadelphia abortion clinic now face prison time for the work they did for Dr. Kermit Gosnell. Three have pleaded guilty to third-degree murder. And Gosnell, 72, is on trial in the deaths of a patient and seven babies allegedly born alive. In testimony at the capital murder trial this past month, an unlicensed doctor and untrained aides described long, chaotic days at the clinic. They said they performed grueling, often gruesome work for little more than minimum wage, paid by Gosnell under the table. But for most, it was the best job they could find. Unlicensed doctor Stephen Massof, 50, of Pittsburgh, said he could not get a U.S. medical residency after finishing medical school in Grenada and went to work for Gosnell as a "backup plan" after six years running a bar. He admitted killing two babies by snipping their necks, as he said Gosnell taught him to do. Eileen O'Neill, 56, had worked as a doctor in Louisiana but relinquished her medical license in 2000 to deal with "post-traumatic stress syndrome," according to her 2011 grand jury testimony. She is the only employee on trial with Gosnell, fighting false billing and racketeering charges. According to one colleague, O'Neill was increasingly upset at the line of people who came to Gosnell's adjacent medical clinic for painkillers. And she was angry that he wasn't helping her regain her license. "She said: 'All I do is break my neck for him all the time, and he never does anything for me. I'm going to have to do something about it,'" front desk worker Tina Baldwin testified this week, recalling a conversation with O'Neill. However, O'Neill, like many others, stayed on at the clinic until a February 2010 drug raid, which was spawned by Gosnell's high-volume distribution of OxyContin and other painkillers. Gosnell, once a gifted student in his working-class black neighborhood, had put his medical school education to work as a 1970s-era champion of drug treatment and legal abortions. But 30 years later, conditions inside his bustling clinic and his old neighborhood had deteriorated, according to trial testimony. Defense lawyer Jack McMahon argues that no babies were born alive, and unforeseen complications caused the overdose death of the woman who died. "Just because the place was less than state-of-the-art doesn't make him a murderer," McMahon said in opening statements last month. Baldwin, like colleague Latosha Lewis, had trained to be a medical assistant at a for-profit vocational school before going to work for Gosnell in 2002. She handed out drugs at the front desk to induce labor, while Lewis helped perform ultrasounds, administer medications and deliver babies. Lewis worked from 10 a.m. until well after midnight, making $7 to $10 an hour. "Gosnell recklessly cut corners, allowed patients to choose their medication based on ability to pay, and provided abysmal care all to maximize his profit," prosecutors wrote in the 2011 grand jury report. "He was not serving his community. Gosnell ran a criminal enterprise, motivated by greed." Baldwin now faces at least a year in prison, and perhaps much longer, after pleading guilty to federal drug charges and state charges that include corruption of a minor. Her daughter, Ashley, went to work for Gosnell when she was 15 because she was interested in medicine. Before long, she was working past midnight and missing school to help the nocturnal doctor perform abortions. More than once, she said, she saw a baby move after the procedure. Gosnell would explain to his teenage trainee that the movements were a last reflex during the death process. Ashley Baldwin, now 22, was one of the few clinic workers not charged after the FBI raid. Two other clinic workers had family ties to Gosnell. Elizabeth Hampton as a child had been in foster care with Gosnell's third wife, Pearl. And Adrienne Moton, a classmate of Gosnell's daughter, moved in with the family as a teenager because of problems at home. Both have pleaded guilty in the case but hope to get reduced terms in exchange for their cooperation. And Pearl Gosnell, a licensed cosmetologist, pleaded guilty to performing illegal, late-term abortions. The others convicted include clinic workers Lynda Williams and Sherry West. Williams was hired to clean instruments but soon helped anesthetize patients, perform ultrasounds and carry out abortions, cutting babies in the back of the neck. She has pleaded guilty to third-degree murder, which carries a 20- to 40-year prison sentence. West, 53, had been a longtime surgical technician at the Veterans Administration but quit in 2007 after contracting Hepatitis C. A year later, still waiting on disability benefits, she went to work for Gosnell. West has pleaded guilty to third-degree murder for administering drugs to the refugee from Bhutan who died of a drug overdose during a 2009 abortion, but she testified this week she has her doubts about her plea. "It was so confusing," she said, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer. "I didn't know what to do." http://news.yahoo.com/philly-abortion-clinic-workers-saw-few-options-204953578.html And the pro-aborts on this forum says....NO ONE DOES LATE TERM ABORTIONS. NO WOMEN WANT LATE TERM ABORTIONS. LIES LIES AND MORE LIES.
Elective late term abortions are legal, under certain loopholes. Such as the "health" of the mother, which basically means her "emotional health" too. Some pro choicers are just in denial, or at the very least, misinformed.
Gosnell is on trial. If he did the things he is accused of, pro-choicers will not defend him. If he broke the law, he should pay for it. And that is basically what I have heard pro-choicers say, not silence.
Maybe that's because this is a DUPLICATE thread ... (duh!) Maybe because this is about a CRIME and NOT abortion. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
[MENTION][/MENTION]Who says no one does late term abortions? of course you're going to find people like this doctor who as stated in your source was someone who committed illegal actions and massive malpractice by any medical standards, he is also on trial for doing so. So with this information we can agree that some people will do things like this but the question is, is this common practice? I would argue no with the facts presented since when do people who are supported in the medical profession need to hire unlicensed doctors and untrained staff. The only way this could be a scandal on the side of people who are pro-choice if people are supporting his actions with the law or by protesting and as far as I can tell he has no support by either and is being dealt with by due process as criminals usually are.
When there are so many people desperate for a job, it creates a situation ripe for exploitation. Employers can essentially get their employees to do whatever they want, no matter how unsafe or morally questionable. Gosnell targeted and hired desperate workers with poor credentials and few other options. http://www.sheboyganpress.com/viewa...hilly-abortion-clinic-workers-saw-few-options
Not one single pro-choice person has ever said late-term abortions are not done .. so that is a lie (these lies are really racking up for you, didn't you know lying is a sin) All this does (along with the other threads of this nature) is show that there are people in the world who will break laws (shock .. horror .. people break laws). Here we have an unlicensed doctor, aided by untrained staff performing, what amounts to illegal abortions, purely for profit .. he and his staff got caught and are being prosecuted as is right. So in essence this is just another of those threads that wield a very large brush in order to tar all .. more general sensationalism in order to bolster a failing campaign.
Here's what this looks like to me. This is the pro-life version of Sandy Hook Elementary. Somebody broke the law in regards to one issue and then the side that wants their legislation to win (in this case pro-lifers want to ban or further restrict abortion based on this alone) immediately rubs it in the faces of those who support certain freedoms over and over. Sorry but it's just not going to work.
That they were unlicensed and untrained is really besides the point. They were only able to operate openly in that community because abortion on demand is seen as an acceptable thing in society. Is there really so much difference between a legal abortion at 24 weeks and an illegal abortion at 7 months? When an abortion clinic routinely aborts 24 week old babies, it is not much of an ethical jump to do procedures on 7 month old babies. And then induced labor abortions. And then eventually just killing babies outright. It is a slippery moral slope that can easily spiral into depravity. "The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion because if a mother can kill her own child, what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between." -- Mother Teresa If an abortion clinic can routinely abort 24 week old babies in the womb, it's not really much of a stretch to kill prematurely newborn babies.
And that would be against the law.....so? And Mutha Theresa? Must've had a heart like a rock to see the awful poverty around her and want it to continue and want children to have to live in it....what an jerk she must've been to feel that way. The greatest detroyer of peace is MEN and their WARS....and anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain stupid.
Why won't you defend him..what did he do wrong? Why I have heard it said time and time again that late term abortion don't happen in America...but wow....Gosnell is on trial. Amazing isn't it? But then late term abortions should be legal. As I believe you said just yesterday in another thread that we should have laws like Canada cause they don't have any. So in Canada would Gosnell be on trial?
Makes those who support it look really really bad. Biggest case in the country at the present and look at how many are debating this right now. No the pro-abort side does NOT WANT TO TOUCH THIS. It is too too close to their beliefs. And when evil is exposed...good wins every time....
Except...NO ONE supports what he did. Try as you will to blame the pro-choice side, it is not responsible. Rogue clinics like this only exist when women have no other place to go. Make sure safe and legal abortion is available for all women, and there will be no reason to this to happen.
"what did he do wrong?" OMG! You don't know what he did wrong ? YOU APPROVE OF MURDER!!!!! You don't think that 's wrong??!!!! OMG No wonder ol' Ghandi said: I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
WhatNow!? said, He did not love Christ, did not know Christ and neither do you if you are not a believer. <<< Mod Edit: Insult >>>Wow...Bringing religion up again...you pagans can't stop thinking about God can you? You think that if someone is a Christian they should just roll over and be all about love...and acceptance and tolerance. Abortion is not about any of these and Christ would NOT put up with any of your positions...especially if you claimed to be His. He was not some whip who walked around singing Kumbaya. He called sin out when he saw and and he expects those who love Him to do the same. You don't like me, you don't like my position because I don't believe in killing unborn children, and I am sure because I am a Christian. The fact is...if you did get the opportunity to present your abortion position to God...(and you will one day according to my beliefs) and you told Him what you tell us...your case would collapse like a house of cards. He would see the position as devoid of love. You would no doubt blame society for your beliefs...the blame game is an art form for you pro-aborts.
What Gosnell did was illegal. What he did is not proof that elective late term abortions are legal in America.
SAm....I know what he did was illegal, there is no doubt. But the pro-abort community here wants abortion legal based on privacy and ownership. The woman owns her body. But then they want to take this right away from her by wanting to DENY late term abortion. So if one thought that abortion should be legal like Pasithea does throughout the entire pregnancy was what Gosnell did bad? I would like to know why they are not defending him. The women that went to him did so of free choice...they owned their bodies and wanted obviously to end the pregnancy. That is what the pro-choice position is all about isn't it? So again based on their position....what could they possibly think he did wrong?
Most pro choicers on this board aren't stating, "legalize elective late term abortions"! It would be digusting if anybody would believe that a woman has the right to get an elective late term abortion for any reason she wants to, because "it's her bodily rights". It's almost like abortion is sacred to the pro choice community. Pro choice women feel like they deserve special treatment. The "bodily rights" arguement to support elective late term abortions is greatly disturbing and a sick belief. "bodily rights", can justify almost anything that a person does with their own body, that harms another human being, because "it's their own body that they have the right to do whatever they want to with it".
Beside the point .. really .. do you even read what you write. They probably operated more to do with the fact that people like you want to stop funding to clinics and leave those with no means to pay open to the abuse of people like this. Repeating the same old lie again I see, please provide your evidence that abortion clinics "routinely" abort 24 week fetuses. The same slippery slope you advocate for removing rights from people, what do you want next .. women locked away and used as brood mares. Dear Anders you already advocate that when the newborn doesn't match up to your particularly standards, remember .. Downs Syndrome and mixed race newborns .. hypocritical is what you are.
WHO deserves "special treatment"....I am Ptro-choice, I have NEVER asked that women get "special treatment"....but nevermind, I now know you don't answer questions.... And all this screaming about how the media is in a big conspiracy to block this out yet although I don't watch the news much even I heard that it has nothing to do with abortion, it's about murder.......so if you can't stay on topic........
I have always been extremely clear in the fact that I believe women should be free to make their own MEDICAL decisions concerning their bodies and that includes pregnancy in every month since it is very entwined with health and medicine in this day and age. So yes, I certainly support a woman's right to do whatever she wants with her body medically speaking. If she wants/needs an abortion then I belive she has a right to obtain one without interference from anyone most especially from the government and strangers. As it currently stands Canada has no laws on abortion and they have yet to become a chaotic and lawless society, in fact this is ideal for women since when they absolutely need an abortion in the third trimester there is no red tape or flaming hoops they must jump through to get it.
