As war was declared on the US by terrorists what would you have put forth as fodder for public consumption to define the multi pronged campaign to minimize and or destroy Qutbist influences and violence world wide?
I actually kind of envy you what, with finding North Kore and it's repressive non democratic dictatorship on par with the US political system. It must open an entire world for you to move to if and when the chips here become too unbearable to take. Cuba is another, Russia, China, golly, an entire universe that others would find so repugnant you would find perfectly viable.
how much did the planning and attack cost? From my understanding it was somewhere around a few hundred thousand dollars which is well within the range of donations from Mosques in SA which are or were well known to support Qutbist organizations such as AQ. Heck, even a single rich dude could have financed it so please, spell out your proof and end this guessing game.
I never claimed that Saudi Arabia either was or wasn't.. What I said was that there were indications of Saudi financing, but the investigation into the funding of the attack was discontinued.. Why didn't the 9/11 Commission Report care to get to the bottom of that. Now YOU claim as fact, that Taliban sponsored 9/11. So what evidence proves that? The training camps they trained in were in Afghanistan, just as the flight schools the hijackers trained in were in the USA.
Just another instance of the old this list of countries is worse, so you can't complain! argument. I don't care how nasty the little Un's regime is - I'm talking about this regime. It doesn't get a free pass just because some places are markedly worse off. In fact, I find our growing similarity to those places positively alarming.
You claimed they definatily didn't.. How was that determination made? Who investigated that money trail and ruled out Saudi Arabia.. You vaguely insinuating public knowledge is a debate fail. If there were an investigation that cleared SA, you could show the information. Instead, they left that rock unturned. But you somehow know what's under it, but can't explain how. What the 9/11 Commission said was, they weren't interested in who financed the plot. It didn't matter. Don't you think that matters? You can't claim there's no evidence when the evidence is intentionally not sought. You have to do proper inquiry to rule something out. lol you're joking.. The same ones that failed to stop the plot, couldn't even stop the Boston bombing despite the obvious warnings, the same ones that are blamed to have thought Iraq had active WMD programs, the same ones that grounded a foreign European plane thinking Eric Snowden was on it, etc.. High quality my ass. The CIA don't do intelligence; that's merely their guise. They are merely the criminal mafia used to carry out crimes like torture, inciting rebellion, assassinating people, destabalizing countries etc.
Not an argument, why you are here working your tail off for sub standard government when you could be sitting in a comfy gulag in NK is beyond me. Golly, even working a couple hours a day in Cuba cleaning toilets at a resort for me and my pals would give you the same pay and great government so why put up with all the hardships here when you could be mixing my Daiquiris and selling me cheap trinkets on the beach?
More than 10 years since his capture and they STILL can't prove it in court. So what makes it so clear to you?
Prove what in court? That he is a terrorist or not a terrorist or is a really really bad evil guy who is a terrorist or what exactly?
The narrative given to us? How about the real world facts and evidence, instead. Not all of us open wide for the airplane-spoon. If it were behind the scenes, then you wouldn't know anyway, so lack of you seeing that is moot. Instead of "would" and "should" type assumption arguments, just tell us the actual concrete evidence. - - - Updated - - - How? Proof?
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about do you? Congress declared war through a joint resolution against those persons, organizations, and states who harbor or aided those persons and individuals who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks, it was not a declaration of war against terrorism. Joint Resolution To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States. Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and Whereas, such acts render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad; and Whereas, in light of the threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by these grave acts of violence; and Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States; and Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States: Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force'. SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES. (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons. (b) War Powers Resolution Requirements- (1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution. (2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supercedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution. Speaker of the House of Representatives. Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate. http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/sjres23.enr.html
And where'd you get that information? What claim did I make which requires proof? Me demanding proof for the claims of others is no mandate for me to prove the opposite. I don't claim to know everything. Show me the information and if it's good, then I'll know just like you do, and I will thank you for setting me straight. You guys seem to know more, so please share. That's the point when I ask "how do you know".. I just don't take people's word for it, that's all. - - - Updated - - - Prove what? That he masterminded 9/11.. I quoted the very claim that I said they never proved in court. It is a FACT that KSM was never proven guilty of masterminding 9/11 in court. In fact, I've not seen a single shred of real-world evidence that supports that claim.
911 report. "Bin Ladin and his aides did not need a very large sum to finance their planned attack on America. The 9/11 plotters eventually spent somewhere between $400,000 and $500,000 to plan and conduct their attack. " Sure, just did. 911 report. Well good, to allow him his day in a court to provide a platform for his crap is pretty dumb to begin with. He's harmless where he's at and won't be executing any plans other than how to avoid picking up the soap for the rest of his life.
It was a determination to your non response that the representatives of the people are not that. I suppose a non response for a non comment. Get back to me when you have something worth a bit more than I gave please.
Yet Saudi Arabia remains our bestest buddy while Afghanistan and Iraq got made into scapegoats. Funny how things work out.
Afghanistan refused to turn over Al Qaeda leadership who were wanted for the Kobar Towers and effectively hid them and provided support. Iraq broke a ceasefire with the coalition. It's funny how some people don't understand reality preferring to play games with strawmen.
Most of the attackers were Saudi, and of course Osama bin Scapegoat was as well. Have you ever seen evidence to implicate the Taliban in any of it? Has any of us? [video=youtube;KPh6Iv2GbcA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPh6Iv2GbcA[/video] We get told what to think as our so-called leaders spin tales for us. Deception is their game, hence all the secrecy at every level and in every agency involved. Few if any are possessed of all the facts involved, and we know that members of our government lie to us and conceal information from us in order to further certain agendas without popular resistance.
Speaking of strawmen, what does an attack in Saudi Arabia in 1995 have to do with 9/11 and our invasion of Afghanistan subsequent to it? Bush and Congress didn't send soldiers there because of a six year old bombing in a foreign country.
Taliban had nothing to do with 911. I'm pretty darned sure of it and have never seen anything credible to imply otherwise. On the other hand, they did harbor a known terrorist network and an indited criminal who had no nationality or passport and was wanted internationally for murder.
Al Qaeda was immediately deemed responsible for 911 as per the overwhelming information which lacked a connection to become intelligence that was deadly obvious and apparent once the missing piece came home which became all too apparent upon the 911 attacks. OBL and his men were wanted in other attacks and the Taliban's refusal to turn them and instead attached ridiculous conditions that over meant they were harboring them and hence, were an enemy of the US and freind of the terrorist organization known as AL Qaeda.. - - - Updated - - - Turn them over to whom? Hmmmm?
The UN Security Council had already passed resolutions demanding the Taliban turn over Bin Laden and Al Qaeda members for their attacks on African US Embassies, but you think they are reasonable in demanding they be provided evidence of their involvement in 9/11??? Im sure, like you, they could be provided videos of Bin Laden and his buddies congratulating themselves for the attacks after the fact. Videos of the hijackers in Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan, videos of their final statement, will and testament, videos of them in the US Airports, boarding the flights used in the attacks, and you and they would claim them to be Zionist fabrications, seemingly unable to believe Al Qaeda would carry out a terrorist attack against the US
Read the damn paper! I've given you multiple posts of evidence and suggestions of human nature. If you can't accept public knowledge, and you, yourself, can't present an alternative source, or at least have earned my trust as a primary source of information, than YOU are the one with the debate fail. I'm not going to assume everything is true until it's proven false. Actually there is a LIMIT on reason. It isn't reasonable to run around, without a goal, looking under every rock to see what's there. NO reason! Therefore, it's also reasonable NOT to look under every rock when you don't need to. I think the 9/11 Commission was right. Saudi Arabia doesn't matter. It's just a distraction. Remember there's NO reason to look under a rock without a reason, and the same applies to Saudi Arabia and financing. As for the intelligence failures, yes, there are some major blunders in the news for all to see and scorn. But, since it's not a daily occurrence, I also have a little faith that maybe, just maybe, they actually do their jobs sometimes... Plus, with the NSA going through everyone's stuff, I think they have the ability to go back through the files to find out the facts and what went wrong. So the system is really idiot proof, you see?
