Conspiracy theories 101

Discussion in '9/11' started by GodsMan, May 30, 2019.

  1. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    According to historians the Mossadegh government stopped counting votes in the 1952 election before seats that would have been unfavourable to it were complete and thereafter governed with significantly less than a majority of seats had the full number been counted. According to historians he used the equivalent of 'emergency powers' to effectively rule as a dictator.

    That means his government was no more 'legitimate' than any other dictatorship. The fact that he had once been legitimately elected does not change that - by that standard Batista & Marcos would both have been 'legitimate'.

    So what does this mean? It means that people need to stop claiming Mossedegh was 'democratically elected' or 'legitimate' when he was overthrown. It is a comforting fantasy, but untrue. Clearly people like yourself are unconcerned by illegitimate governments with which you agree. Otherwise you would not be so upset that I have pointed out an inconvenient truth and you would not be dragging the dictatorship in Venezuela into this conversation.

    I have never endorsed the removal of Mossedegh because I do not believe it was the correct thing to do. That is your invention. I would complain about you ascribing opinions to me that I have never held, but there is no reason to believe it would stop you telling lies about me.
     
  2. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. The 10th Amendment prohibits the federal government from asserting powers not specifically granted to it by the Constitution. The Constitution does not grant the US government any authority to interfere in the affairs of (never mind try to overthrow) any foreign government. In fact many treaties the US government is a signatory to (and part of the Constitution via the Supremacy Clause) specifically prohibit such action.
     
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  3. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  4. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are, in fact, defending and promoting a government lie. That's all I really need to know about you.

    You offer government psychobabble. That's all I really need to know.

    LOL, the next thing you'll be telling me is that Iran-Contra was just some fraternity boy picnic, with no law-breaking involved.
     
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  5. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    What is the 'government lie'? be very specific with something equating credible citations to back it up.

    At this stage the 'babble' isn't coming from me.
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The entire official conspiracy theory advanced by the government. From impossible cell phone calls to impossible explanations offered by NIST to impossible maneuvers by certain aircraft, and on and on, the government story is bullshit and fails under even superficial examination.

    That might be too simple for you to understand, but c'est la vie.
     
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  7. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    What does this have to do with Iran? I was pointing out that an assertion about Iran was factually wrong and a conclusion based on that was questionable. You have addressed neither.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    My apologies. As we were posting on a 911 thread, I had confused your defense of our overthrowing Mossadegh and the lies told for that effort, as a defense of the lies told regarding 911.

    In either case you are defending government lies and propaganda. That makes you an apologist for government propaganda, and now I know that.
     
  9. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    OK, so no relevant facts to offer AND a deliberate misrepresentation of my position. I could pretend to be surprised, but why bother. Par for the course.
     
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It was an explanation far too complex for you to grasp.
     
  11. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Conspiracies exist.

    Conspiracy theories exist because humans are:

    1. Illogical
    2. Terrible at finding patterns.
    3. Great at leaping to predetermined conclusions.

    Intuition is a useful and necessary tool, but it is completely reliant on self delusion. My intuition is X, therefore everything that appears to support X must support X. Everything that contradicts X must have some explanation. Think this way, *everyone does, and you'll end up a conspiracy theorist of one kind or another.
     
  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    No, the reason conspiracy theories exist is because conspiracies exist. That's a no brainer, just like the reason scientific theories exist is that science exists. For another explanation, read post #12. But thanks for the CIA propaganda version, it's exactly what the US government wants you to buy. Not to mention that the hypocrisy is inescapable since the official 9/11 narrative is merely a conspiracy theory being peddled as fact by the same source that tries to indoctrinate everyone into believing that all opposing or alternative 9/11 theories are "conspiracy theories" and must therefore come from lunatics or half-wits.

    See also an excerpt from this article:

    I have a particular interest in the manner in which government controls thought and always actively listening for the tactics which suppress free thought. The examples are in abundance at times when the government is most desperate to cover something up. Most government cover ups rely on the patriotic sense of loyalty and obedience to the narrative and prey on human emotions which will override logic and evidence.

    When emotions are high, like in post 9/11 America, logic can be easily diverted in favor of patriotism and respect for the victims. The problem is that over time as emotions subside people are able to separate the victims from a logical analysis of the narrative. This explains why the once marginalized "conspiracy theorist" becomes more mainstream and gives permission to the general public to question. For those pushing the official narrative these people are a serious problem.


    https://www.opednews.com/articles/C...ities_Conspiracies_Conspiracy-190821-282.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  13. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your post in its entirety exhibits all the qualities I outlined. It's illogical, it poorly recognizes patterns, and it leaps to unsupported conclusions.

    Not to mention other classic delusions such as:

    Mind reading: "it's exactly what the US government wants you to buy"

    Paranoia: "government controls thought" ,and "always actively listening for the tactics which suppress free thought"

    Pro tip: when you're actively listening for something someone else is thinking, you'll hear exactly what you want to hear.
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The only delusional one here is you who actually believes there are no such things as conspiracy theories and everything you’re fed by the US government is fact, not to be questioned. Adolph Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels thrived on fools just like you. And so do all governments. In fact in your world the founders were delusional.
     
  15. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it a reading comprehension thing or are you responding to someone else?
     
  16. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I mis-worded it such that you didn't get it. You do believe conspiracy theories exist but limited strictly to the paranoid and delusional (therefore they really don't exist on your planet except as fantasy). So in your world, besides all those you disagree with, these people are also all paranoid and/or delusional:

    1. Most of intelligence, legal and law enforcement industry personnel who are trained in and make a living from conspiracies and conspiracy theories (and those who train them).

    2. All the federal and state legislators who have created and enacted conspiracy laws and the Presidents and Governors who signed these into law.

    BTW, nearly every single conspiracy that ever existed past and present was uncovered via a conspiracy theory (I'm not so sure there ever was an exception). But to you, no conspiracy has ever been uncovered because of a conspiracy theory.

    There's a lot of paranoid and delusional folk who inhabit your world, better be careful.
     
  17. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right. That was the problem for sure.

    I think you just need to admit you're not good at reading. Minds, or otherwise.
     
  18. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I guess that ends the delusional conspiracy theorist conspiracy theory of yours. Thanks anyway. Back to conspiracy theoryland, the Petition for a Special Grand Jury and the lawsuit vs the FBI and DOJ. They aren't really happening so no worries for you, they're just a delusion. But for the delusional and paranoid such as I, it looks to me like they're happening.
     
  19. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, you are arguing with the voices in your head.

    The conversation you think you had with me certainly didn't happen here. I pointed out two delusions that you communicated in your post. One being the belief that you can read the mind of a construct that doesn't even have a mind to read. Government is not a single mind that can be read. It's a collective of individuals with vastly different thoughts and goals. The other being the idea that the government controls what you think, but not what you think because you're always on the lookout.

    I was talking about your post. Not anyone else's thoughts.

    That reality stewed in your head for a moment and you projected all kinds of new thoughts into the conversation that never took place. A conspiracy theory about my two point post then formed. In order to absolve yourself of the delusions I pointed out you rationalized. He caught me making delusional statements becomes: He thinks everyone is delusional.

    You're not a scientist. You're an artist, building a model of a fantasy that you imagined to be true. You did it just now in our conversation. That's why conspiracy theories exist.
     
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  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'm not "arguing" with anyone, much less the voices in my head. I'm discussing YOUR theory about lunatic and paranoid conspiracy theorists that YOU concocted with YOU. So in the "discussion" I used 9/11 as a perfect example since we are having this "discussion" in the 9/11 sub-section of the Conspiracy Theories section of this forum, and in a thread called Conspiracy Theories 101 no less. So I think the topics 9/11 and the US government are quite appropriate as an example of your perception of delusional and paranoid conspiracy theorists, don't you think? At least that's what the voices in my head are telling me. You are posting in this section of the forum, aren't you?

    I used to wonder why every single discussion about 9/11 and perhaps in every discussion forum is always relegated to the Conspiracy Theories section of these forums. It doesn't matter what the subject matter is (i.e. the very real legal actions), any post I or anyone else writes about 9/11 is quickly moved to this section of the forum (as in all other forums). But I quickly figured out that it is forum SOP because most are delusional and/or paranoid about 9/11.
     
  21. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record, the definition. Anyone who thinks conspiracies are just myth, is a dull bulb.


    con·spir·a·cy
    /kənˈspirəsē/
    Learn to pronounce
    noun
    1. a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
      "a conspiracy to destroy the government"
      synonyms: plot, scheme, stratagem, plan, machination, cabal, intrigue, palace intrigue; More
      • the action of plotting or conspiring.
        "they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice"
        synonyms: plotting, collusion, intrigue, connivance, machination, collaboration;
        treason
        "he was due to stand trial for conspiracy to murder"
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    A conspiracy is two or more people making a secret plan, this happens accountable times every day the world over. A theory is just an idea. Therefore a conspiracy theory is an idea of what two or more people might be planning in secret.

    Conspiracy theories are just the first step in proactive strategy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  23. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And I'm telling you you're not discussing my thoughts on the matter. You're discussing what the voices in your head tell you I said. Who's right about what I think? Me or the voices in your head? I know what a conspiracy theorist would think...

    I said specifically that humans are illogical, terrible at finding patterns, and quick to leap to predetermined conclusions. Without these human limitations there would not be a conspiracy theory. There would just be a theory. You did not dispute any of these premises. Instead you informed me of your delusions about what the government wants you to buy, and how the government wants to control what you think. Rather that dispute my premise, you reinforced it.

    You also tried to cast yourself in the role of a scientist, a criminal investigator, and a legislator. None of which produce conspiracy theories as a function of their duty. Research, investigation, and legislation on a subject does not require a narrative and a false narrative. Especially not any narrative that involves the secret machinations of powerful shadow figures, secret technologies, nefarious clubs of evil doers, etc.

    Conspiracy theorists develop the story first. That's the difference. You did it here in this thread regarding what you think I think. You've done it on the subject of 9/11. You do it in your life daily. Everyone does in one way or another, because like I said, humans are illogical, terrible at finding patterns, and make lots of hasty generalizations. "Oh that looked like a building demolition. There must be some other explanation. It must have been an insurance scam or for gulf war oil, or for mind control!" I seriously had a discussion a few years back here with a person who perceived the towers turning to dust and decided that was evidence that a hurricane powered space based energy weapon was used to dismantle the building at an atomic level. A theory like that doesn't develop from a rational pursuit of truth. It comes from a conspiracy theorist attempting to promote a predetermined narrative.
     
  24. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

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    It's a reading comprehension thing for him as proven below.

    You said:
    Bobby's interpretation of what you said?:
     
  25. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's just mis-wording such that we don't get it. Bobby's not saying delusional things. He's just bad a communicating, apparently. So when he says such things as:

    It wasn't a projection of what he wanted me to believe that was completely fabricated in his mind. It was just a poorly worded direct quote of what I actually said. :)
     

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