Corona Virus Update

I find it completely unbelievable the CDC believes cloth masks are superior to N95 quality masks. I find it completely unbelievable the CDC wasn’t aware of the existence of masks they themselves were certifying and inspecting the factories producing them. I have an open invitation out for someone to provide evidence contrary—that they really are that stupid. But nobody has been able to convince me the people at the CDC are stupid.

The CDC is full of epidemiologists and virologists. There’s no way they don’t know wearing cloth masks will kill more people than wearing N95 masks. I can’t believe they are that stupid. Can you?

 

No, which just leaves 'they know something we don't'. Or 'They're callous murderers'

 

Probably because the CDC worked out that the general population would not buy single use masks. Cloth masks can be easily washed which is better than no mask

 

So we are back to where you and I usually end up. They told a bald face lie, but it’s OK because they have some secret knowledge and are benevolent at heart.

A lie that kills people matters to me no matter what secret information the CDC has.

 

Hmmm. Won’t buy them you say.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-face-masks.html

The CDC prevented retailers from selling N95s but allowed counterfeit KN95s and crappy imitation surgical masks that people buy, wear, and throw away. They say 1.6 billion disposable masks ended up in the ocean in 2020. Where did they come from?

The CDC actively campaigned against N95 use in public. Why would they do that for a product they knew nobody would wear?

If the CDC “worked out” Americans who buy and throw away almost everything wouldn’t buy a single use mask they may be just stupid.

 

I could put in from my view point, but what for.

 

FDA panel unanimously endorses Moderna boosters for certain populations

https://www.axios.com/fda-moderna-c...m_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts_healthcare

 

Try and keep to your same story! You've been saying that N95 masks should have been promoted by CDC yet at the same time you post "They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if health care providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”

And which Ocean are these 1.5 billion and who says they all came from the US and who is "they"? And even if all those came from the US that 1.5b is just five per person in nearly 9 months. And your link which actually supports the CDC and Fauci is before Covid even made any significant impact on US

 

Please quote where I’ve said N95s are not effective at preventing the general public from catching #Coronavirus. LOL. You are making things up again my friend. Not cool.

Why would I spend hours on this forum trying to get people to wear better masks if I didn’t think they worked? You crack me up sometimes.

I did not claim all the masks in the ocean came from the US. Americans are buying disposable masks hand over fist and disposing of some properly and some improperly.
https://www.wuft.org/news/2021/02/0...asks-also-pose-a-threat-to-alachuas-wildlife/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nbcmon...ees-increase-in-littering-of-disposable-masks

If people won’t buy and use disposable masks where are all these disposable masks coming from? I’ve heard some funny excuses for the CDC disinformation but this may top the silly list.

What link supports Fauci and the CDC. Be specific. I’ve posted numerous links.

 

Forgot the link to the 1.6 billion claim.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/1-6-billion-disposable-masks-142813561.html

If you have a different count you think is more accurate I’m open to considering it. LOL

 

Do you even bother to read the quotes you copied and pasted? Nice own goal by you though or are you now going to say he was wrong

LOL The topis is about mask use in the US! Followed by another of your strawman fallacies - your MO

How many is "all those"? Perhaps you could point out where I even said about any numbers in my statement "Probably because the CDC worked out that the general population would not buy single use masks" Do you comprehend what the meaning of "general population is?

You only had one link in your post I replied to and it was dated 29th Feb 2020 and you posted the surgeon general's words - nice own goal

 

So that number is equivalent to 0.0005 masks per person per day worldwide so perhaps you could explain how you quoting that number is of any proof that the US population were buying one time use masks in any significant amounts. Are you going to continue with your strawman arguments?

 

Yes I read them. The surgeon general is an idiot. You attributed his words and beliefs to me. Not cool, bro. I posted the link to show Americans were buying disposable masks before they were told not to! How is this hard to understand? Before morons like the surgeon general, Fauci, and the CDC told people not to buy N95s and made retailers stop selling them Americans were buying them like crazy. After retailers quit selling N95s Americans continued to buy disposable faux surgical masks etc.

I’ve presented evidence disposable masks are very common in the US and around the world contrary to your assertion Americans won’t buy them. Americans do buy them. You are incorrect.

The surgeon general, Fauci, and the CDC had to work to PREVENT Americans from buying N95s. Americans wanted them as my link showed. Americans continued to buy crappy disposable masks throughout the pandemic. The idea Americans won’t buy disposable masks is patently absurd.

Why do you think I agree with everyone I quote? That’s ridiculous. I quote incorrect advice from the CDC. I quote studies that are erroneous. I quote PF members making false statements. Quoting someone to make a point is not agreeing with them. Clearly I disagree with the surgeon general of feb 2020, Fauci, and the CDC. They all are responsible for killing a lot of people by recommending AGAINST quality masks.

 

What strawman? You claim Americans won’t buy disposable masks. I’ve presented evidence they do. They are blowing all over parking lots and clogging up waterways. I presented evidence Americans had to be told NOT to buy disposable masks when they were voluntarily buying them in great quantities.

On the other hand what have you presented? Your unsubstantiated opinion that Americans aren’t willing to buy disposable masks.

Show me some evidence Americans won’t buy disposable masks. Go ahead. Or just misrepresent my posts by attributing the words of a moron surgeon general responsible with Fauci and the CDC for killing many Americans to me. LOL. We all know what we will get from you. More unsubstantiated opinion as always.

 

Since you have chosen the side of the science deniers and think Fauci, the surgeon general, and the CDC are correct why don’t you provide some evidence the bolded above by you in the surgeon general claim is factual. Go ahead. This should be good.

 

@557 was quoting the Surgeon General saying that. Those were not 557's words. He's been consistently showing the right approach to the mask conundrum. I barely understand why people seem to be questioning him so intensely.

 

Yes, I know those words were not @557 and I know he does not agree with those words but the subject was why did the CDC not recommend buying the N95 masks and one of the answer was in the tweet by the Surgeon General regarding the panic buying of quality masks which were already in short supply. Of course the SG knew that N95 masks reduce risk but purposely used the word "not effective in preventing" preventing as in not giving 100% risk reduction, in order to stop the panic buying. He did not lie but played on words

Now, those on low income could not afford those better quality one-use masks and so needed to be advised to buy what they could afford and those were washable cloth masks and that is the point of my post that he attacked and then used strawman arguments as if they were relevant.

N95 masks and even surgical masks are not cheap, reusable cloth masks are cheap and are better than no mask. Low income adults tend to work in busier areas than the middle and high income adults and hence it is more important for them that they wore a mask. If all they could afford are cloth masks, it's better than nothing

Even now many people who wear what are supposed to be one-off use masks such as surgical masks and N95 masks re-use them many times constantly putting the same one on and taking it off for days/weeks on end. Unlike cloth masks which practically everyone knows should be washed and were washed daily. I would not be surprised if these re-used surgical masks are giving less protection than the cloth masks that they replaced due to contamination.

 

The problem is when masks were in OVERSUPPLY these clowns still recommended AGAINST them for everyone—rich, poor and middle class. The shortage excuse stopped being valid AT ALL in the late fall of 2020. It was a cute excuse for a few months until N95s were so common producers were going bankrupt because they couldn’t sell enough product to stay afloat. The stupid comments by the surgeon general were false then. The jokers at the CDC parroting the same garbage throughout 2021 is borderline criminal.

N95s are cheap and readily available and these nuts you make excuses for are still not recommending their use. They are killing people and putting US manufacturers who invested millions of dollars and blood and sweat equity into manufacturing out of business, making us reliant on China again.

There is no excuse for these clowns.

 

Their heroes’ reputations are worth more to them than their personal health or the public good. That’s the only explanation I can come up with. I can’t believe after almost two years you and I are the only people on PF who believe masks work and good masks are better than crappy masks.

 

You are right about that. It's not just contamination. N95 masks can bend out of shape with repeated use, and most importantly, they lose electrostatic charges that help with the filtration of 0.1 micron particulates. Studies have shown loss of efficacy with repeated use. Also, elastic bands can become looser and nose wires can become more complacent, decreasing the seal.

While a few days of reuse will likely still be OK, too many days are not, and ideally they are single use; I wouldn't go to the extreme of changing them every 2 hours (as some manufacturers recommend - remember, for them, the more people discard them and buy new ones, the better for their bottom line) but I'd say that wearing one for the day, all day long, and then discarding it is ideal.

Sure, unfortunately people can't afford them like this... although if people thought a little bit about priorities, these days you find good quality American-made N95 masks for a couple of dollars per unit which is less than what most people spend on a cup of coffee or a pack of cigarettes.

Anyway, we are one of the richest countries in the world; now we have a surplus of N95 masks, so instead of sending people who don't need it, stimulus money checks, I wonder if our government could instead send people high quality masks, together with a tutorial on how to wear them.

Well, this seems ideal but I'm fully aware that a good half of our population would still refuse to wear them and would throw them away... pity, and wasteful.

Certainly the iffy advice the CDC issued did contribute to undermining the idea of mask use, and I do blame them for it, even if the intent was noble. Like the saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I'd have preferred honesty and a frank dialogue with the population. Squandering trust in the middle of a pandemic is a bad, bad idea.

I think the CDC, the Surgeon General, politicians, etc., could indeed have conveyed the message that "please, pretty please, let's conserve these masks for healthcare workers who are taking care of us because if they get sick themselves and drop out of the workforce we're all in trouble; we're working hard to ease the shortage; meanwhile you may want to try and use a cloth mask; get one with multiple layers, insert a filtering medium like a HEPA vacuum filter" etc etc. Most likely, knowing the selfish nature of human beings, people would still panic buy... but the message didn't have to lie and say that the masks were ineffective, regardless of how carefully phrased the message was, and regardless of the semantic trick of saying "not effective in preventing."

Because, see, the message is schizophrenic. Not effective in preventing, but need to be conserved to protect healthcare workers who deal directly with the virus. So, they were saying that the masks are effective in the highest possible risky environment, but not effective for the smaller risk of community contagion??? So do the masks suddenly stop working once they cross the threshold of the exit door of a hospital???

This is akin to saying: "car breaks are useless. They can't stop a car going 5 miles per hour. However, they do stop a car going 100 miles per hour." It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the CDC and the Surgeon General were full of s.... when they said the masks didn't work for community spread but worked for healthcare workers who work in the most contaminated environment. Whoever can do more, can also do less. So the advice was insane.

 

Maybe we're not the only two, but certainly, reading posts around, there aren't many who think so.

 

When people lie to you a couple of times it reaches the point where you don't trust them at all and you use your own observations and make your own decision and stick with it.

 

Everyone I know who caught COVID recovered in a matter of days. Probably a 50/50 split on which ones were vaccinated.

A handful of weeks when it first kicked off, I lost my taste for a few days. Did I have COVID? No idea.

It's just a flu, and just like the flu, if your body type is not up to it, it'll kill you. So much hype, lock downs shouldn't have happened, they've caused more problems and deaths from cancer etc.. as they were not picked up due to cancelled hospital/doctor appointments.

 

Who are these heroes?

Who said masks don't work?

Who said good masks are not better than crappy masks

LOL at your strawman posts, your MO !

 

The ones you defend lying. You just defended an outright lie from the surgeon general, Fauci, and the CDC.

There are numerous posts daily on PF stating masks can’t stop a virus etc. Do you not see them? Need help with examples?
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1072805588/

Fauci (who you introduced to the conversation) has. I’ve had an ongoing conversation with another member for over a month who believes cloth masks are are better at controlling transmission in public than N95s. Need help?
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1072987556/

No strawmen from me. Just facts. It’s too bad you can’t accept facts. I have not addressed any subject here that was not first introduced by others. You introduced Fauci, American’a supposed unwillingness to buy disposable masks, etc. to the conversation. All I’ve done is refute your unsubstantiated and incorrect opinions with facts. I’m not sorry I exposed these people and institutions as liars and upset the apple cart. It’s time to reform our system before more people needlessly die. People who support blatant lies by these people and institutions need to stop supporting the lies.