Here is your chance to debate me on Aboriginals. I have just one proviso, you reference any claims you make. example. If you state ALL Aboriginals are bludgers show me the stats. If you think they are ALL alcoholics, show me the statistics. Now I want real references, not other bloggers or Alan Jones types. Now I KNOW you cannot prove the above two statements as my partner works full time as a qualified child care educator and no she didn't get it through any special course for Aboriginals she studied main stream. Oh and she doesn't drink or use any drugs of any sort. The floor is yours my friend
At the risk of imposing uninvited on a pernal discussion. Our Aboriginal people are disadvantaged by allarmingly high occurance of alchoholism, unemployment, and self sympathy. These self destructive problems, and others to be addressed, need to be honestly discussed, not swept under the carpet. It`s easy to understand how Aboriginals succumed to these threats, not so easy to find solutions.
Let me start by asking: what is the main issue that the majority of Aboriginal people say effects the majority of Aboriginal people in urban & rural Australia? Lets just talk about ONE issue at a time and discuss the two areas individually: rural & urban Australia.
Their biggest handicap is the victim mentality that has been pounded into them for quite some generations now, by unscrupulous political manipulators. The cruelty of this approach is beyond my comprehension. The callousness of setting out to deprive people of hope, the progressive spiritual tools of introspection and accountability, is completely beyond me. What a cruel, slow way to kill people!
Not quite sure what you mean by the government depriving them of hope ? I do agree the the government and past governments have something to answer for. More so for the quick band aid options they have taken and what some people call hush money. However every government has thrown vast amounts of money at aboriginal affairs to improve their lifestyle and give them hope. Problem is money can't give you hope. it has to come from within. I tell you who understands their issues far better than us. THEM. The only path out of their situation has to be walked by them, and until they as a collective group are willing to take that journey, it wont happen. No matter how much money and resources is thrown at it. We are all responsible for our own futures. Aborigines included. Taking responsibility for ones self is the first step. They have good leaders and smart people among them and I am sure that these people will lead them to a better life. Best thing we can do as a nation is show support and help them where we can. They need to re identify with themselves and re establish a once proud people.
The floor is yours, start where you wish, it was you who wanted to debate me. Sure efjay, I would look forward to your input. So far we have very broad statements, why don't we look at some issues you guys have in particular.
As we have discussed in the past DV my standpoint is that the inherent "victim" mentality isnt doing anything to help the aussies that identify themselves as aboriginal. The issues of work, crime, drug and alcohol dependance need to be addressed too.
DV. I have lived and worked all over this country mate, and in both remote locations and in cities. I have changed my career many times and moveed 1000's of kays just to get better work or training. About 18months ago i moved my family to rural nsw to take up my currant job. I have NEVER claimed the dole nor would I. This sort of thing is rare in a lot of the aboriginal comunities, and the feeling i get from talking to some of the aboriginal guys around town is either 1 why work when we can get the dole or 2 there is no work. Now by no means is this limited to the aboriginal population but it is far more prevalent there ( particularly the rural ones ) . Then there is the drugs and booze
Efjay not sure that the dole issue is a good debating point, puely because it is widespread in any community. White, black, yellow, purple or green. The real issues, and their are many, are Alcohol, which leads to another problem, abuse. Then we have education which seems directly related to health which is related to alcoholism. It is a massive tangle that has been left for far too long. Again this is not a problem that is purely Aboriginal, as it is societal. The media and fat white beurocrats tend to point out these problems as purely Aboriginal, as they seem more concentrated. Plus they make for a better story.
Slippery, I`ve obvoiusly given the impression that I was accusing only government for propogating the victim mentality amongst Aborigines, the problem is wide spread amongst the broader community as well. Aboriginals are a hugely varied race of people by nature and environment. For instance, a Cape York Aborigine, generally is a vastly different type of person to a Central Australian one. Step one in beginning to understand Aborigines, is to forget the notion of the "noble savage", some certainly are / were highly noble people, but in the main, they were / are just people, living the only way they know how. The blame game asside, there aren`t many more destructive mind sets than the sense of futility, hate, and self pity that infects such a large proportion of Aborigines. They don`t need our sympathy, they need their own self respect.
Firstly, do we have a consensus that "Mungo man" predates modern Aborigines settlement in Australia, and that both "Mungo Man" and modern Aborigines are not genetically related? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians
Culldav I think I might know where you are heading with this. I am not sure it is really relavent to what is happening today. If you think it is you should just spit it out and let us all debate it.
I hoping for a rational debate where the terms of reference have been established first. I don't think there will be much of a debate where the people debating the issues cannot simply say 'yes' or 'no' to simple questions that are based in fact and are factual by their terms and reference. I believe the link I provided from "wikipedia" substantiated facts and truth, but I am very open to reading other links and references submitted by other members. Therefore I will ask the question again, and will wait for everyone wanting to debate this topic to reply, and the question is: "Firstly, do we have a consensus that "Mungo man" predates modern Aborigines settlement in Australia, and that both "Mungo Man" and modern Aborigines are not genetically related?
No, firstly if your going to quote something, quote something that supports your claim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mungo_remains This is a lot better one. but even it says But what has this got to do with anything, I do how ever have an idea where you are going, your off on the "They are not human", we (white people) have descended from different roots. YOU wanted to debate me, you called this on, so go on, say something we can debate. Do I know if Mungo man was their ancestor? Nope, a bit before my time. I do know something though, they were here before we came.
1) I have made no claims. 2) If you think I have made a direct written claim during this debate; please quote it. 3) Are you saying DominorVibos that you disagree with the evidence contained in the wikipedia link that states Mungo Man settlement in Australia predates modern Aborigine settlement in Australia? 4) Please show me additional credible evidence and links that state modern Aborigines settled Australia prior to Mungo Man. 5) with all due respect; for someone who made claims they have three University degrees; I would suggest you actually read what I have written, and not just read what interests your agenda, and then make grandois assumptions about all the rest so you can fight about it!! 6) Im trying to establish a basic term of reference to get this debate underway, but with you making sweeping statements accusing me of making claims that Aboriginal people are not human is intellectually offensive, and I personally dont think you ever intended to enter into this debate or any other debate in the proper spirit. 7) I am starting to think you are all "p-i-s-s & wind" - the type of person who knows a little bit of information about everything, but that information dries up after 3 beers - prove me wrong...
DV I think you may be over reacting as this issue is very close to home for you. I don't think Culldav is claiming Aborigines aren't human, more so he is trying to prove the point that they are not the first Australians as they make claim to. Right or wrong I personally do not see how this point has any relevence to the issues we face today. We can argue semantics all day, in the end issues aren't solved by trivial disagreements on irrelavent points. Lets focus on the present and put ideas forward that may or may not solve the endemic problems we are currently witnessing.
